anyone shoot at the burnsville p range.

[iamtheshaner]

Where did you pick that bad boy up, and what did it end up setting you back?

Gander in Lakeville. Originally layawayed a CZ 100 .40 but the DAO trigger takeup was TERRIBLE. Gun mags hated it too so I traded for the Taurus. Long story - the yahoo at the counter screwed up by bill and didn't give me my $60 layaway credit on the final bill.
I had him just give me $60 cash and charge me full for the gun and my goodies. A $20 box of hollowpoints, three 100 round plastic totes, a nicer hardshell case (it came with a dinky one), .40 cal brush, .40 cal wad, some #9 and a big bag of patches - $310 out the door after you do the math with the cash refund.

This one is DAO only too but aside from being long, the trigger isn't bad.

It is used, but you can't tell its ever been fired.

[OrangeCrush 86]

Really... Maybe the 24/7s would. My trigger hook can't engage the pin with the slide back.

Scared me there for a second though

Unless they fixed it; unload the gun, pull the trigger back slightly, then lock the slide. Then let got of the trigger and pull it again, see if the firing pin is released with the slide locked. Not a real big deal, but I'm not a fan of any type if safety issues, especially with the slide being locked. If it fires with it locked I am guessing it would really fuck the gun up.

Sigma is ONLY good for the low cost. My 9mm has worked well but the trigger pull is freaking awful. Not safe either, it is only good for a range gun.

[SmithEvo]

Unless they fixed it; unload the gun, pull the trigger back slightly, then lock the slide. Then let got of the trigger and pull it again, see if the firing pin is released with the slide locked. Not a real big deal, but I'm not a fan of any type if safety issues, especially with the slide being locked. If it fires with it locked I am guessing it would really fuck the gun up.

Sigma is ONLY good for the low cost. My 9mm has worked well but the trigger pull is freaking awful. Not safe either, it is only good for a range gun.

I carry glocks. They have no real safety. Its great.

[Gipper]

I carry glocks. They have no real safety. Its great.

What is it with cops and Clocks? It seems most cops swear by them. Is it because you don't want to worry about accidentally having your gun on "safe" if you suddenly need to use your weapon?

I wouldn't carry a Glock if you gave me 10 for free.

[SmithEvo]

What is it with cops and Clocks? It seems most cops swear by them. Is it because you don't want to worry about accidentally having your gun on "safe" if you suddenly need to use your weapon?

I wouldn't carry a Glock if you gave me 10 for free.

Draw and fire. No safety, no decocking lever, just pull the trigger. Also high mag capacity, reliability, and they're fairly accurate. Not match-grade, but more than enough to hit the kill zone at 25 yards.


Some agencies are switching to the Sig P226 now... seems like a nice gun Double action though, not really my thing. I went and watched the Highway Patrol qualify with the Sig's here a little while ago... it's funny, but about 75% thew their first shot out of the holster because of the extra trigger pull.

Out of curiosity though, why do you not like the Glocks?

[Gipper]

Out of curiosity though, why do you not like the Glocks?

I'll be honest, I don't like Clocks because of their lack of safety. I understand as a cop needing your weapon to fire without fail and not having to worry about clicking the safety off when someone is shooting at you.

I'm not a cop but I do have a carry permit. On the rare occasion that I do actually carry, I'm usually carrying my Kimber Ultra Carry with one in the chamber with the safe on. If I was forced to carry a Clock, I'd probably carry it with the chamber empty so I'd have to rack the slide once before it could be fired.

I'm sure they're fine weapons but it's more of a personal choice. They could be the most accurate handgun on the market but I would still steer away from them unless the installed a safety on a new model.

[budderigs]

I dont mind the safety its not that there is no safety there is no external safety. the safety is on the trigger in the gun. to fire it you have to pull the trigger at the bottom and it has a long travel. I would carry a glock anytime... once again it just my opinion... well I guess I kinda will be...

[SmithEvo]

I'll be honest, I don't like Clocks because of their lack of safety. I understand as a cop needing your weapon to fire without fail and not having to worry about clicking the safety off when someone is shooting at you.

I'm not a cop but I do have a carry permit. On the rare occasion that I do actually carry, I'm usually carrying my Kimber Ultra Carry with one in the chamber with the safe on. If I was forced to carry a Clock, I'd probably carry it with the chamber empty so I'd have to rack the slide once before it could be fired.

I'm sure they're fine weapons but it's more of a personal choice. They could be the most accurate handgun on the market but I would still steer away from them unless the installed a safety on a new model.

With CCW it's more of a personal preference anyway. I usually carry a glock 27 for CCW off duty. The lack of any safety button doesn't bother me, but even when I carry one of my weapons that has an external safety, anytime my weapon comes out of the holster it is off safe anyway. There's no way to engage the trigger with the holsters I use for the Glock, so I don't even really think about it I guess.

It's all preference though... if the extra safety of a 1911 gives you an extra piece of mind, carry one! I personally love Kimbers, and one of the next handguns I'm looking at after I buy my Benelli M4 is going to be a Kimber Raptor.

[iamtheshaner]

Unless they fixed it; unload the gun, pull the trigger back slightly, then lock the slide. Then let got of the trigger and pull it again, see if the firing pin is released with the slide locked. Not a real big deal, but I'm not a fan of any type if safety issues, especially with the slide being locked. If it fires with it locked I am guessing it would really fuck the gun up.

Sigma is ONLY good for the low cost. My 9mm has worked well but the trigger pull is freaking awful. Not safe either, it is only good for a range gun.

Musta fixed it. I just don't see how it would be possible....

[Pibbles]

Glocks got a bad rap from the panic loving media as "metal detector proof" back when they first entered the country. (The barrell, slide and most internal components are steel.) They are just as good and reliable as any other similarly priced pistol on the market today.
As for the safety issue, the police and highway patrol used double action revolvers for the better part of the century, and they have no manual safety. So oddly enough the glock was a more "natural" progression than the SA/DA action of say the beretta, or the plain single action of the 1911.

When it comes down to it the most important safety of any gun is the one between your ears. Modern firearms in the US have to comply with pretty stringent drop requirements, the rest is up to proper trigger control.

Carrying a loaded Glock is just as safe (maybe moreso) than a cocked and locked 1911. The glock striker based firing system is not under full pressure until the trigger is pulled all the way back.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911. I also love my XD (which uses about the same system as Glock)

[SmithEvo]

Glocks got a bad rap from the panic loving media as "metal detector proof" back when they first entered the country. (The barrell, slide and most internal components are steel.) They are just as good and reliable as any other similarly priced pistol on the market today.
As for the safety issue, the police and highway patrol used double action revolvers for the better part of the century, and they have no manual safety. So oddly enough the glock was a more "natural" progression than the SA/DA action of say the beretta, or the plain single action of the 1911.

When it comes down to it the most important safety of any gun is the one between your ears. Modern firearms in the US have to comply with pretty stringent drop requirements, the rest is up to proper trigger control.

Carrying a loaded Glock is just as safe (maybe moreso) than a cocked and locked 1911. The glock striker based firing system is not under full pressure until the trigger is pulled all the way back.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911. I also love my XD (which uses about the same system as Glock)

This man knows what he is talking about

[Gipper]

the safety is on the trigger in the gun. to fire it you have to pull the trigger at the bottom and it has a long travel

Yes, I understand how the trigger safety works on a Glock.

It's all preference though... if the extra safety of a 1911 gives you an extra piece of mind, carry one! I personally love Kimbers, and one of the next handguns I'm looking at after I buy my Benelli M4 is going to be a Kimber Raptor.

Yeah, I don't carry very often but when I do I like the extra safety of the 1911. Like you said... it's just personal preference.

Glocks got a bad rap from the panic loving media as "metal detector proof" back when they first entered the country. (The barrell, slide and most internal components are steel.) They are just as good and reliable as any other similarly priced pistol on the market today.
As for the safety issue, the police and highway patrol used double action revolvers for the better part of the century, and they have no manual safety. So oddly enough the glock was a more "natural" progression than the SA/DA action of say the beretta, or the plain single action of the 1911.

When it comes down to it the most important safety of any gun is the one between your ears. Modern firearms in the US have to comply with pretty stringent drop requirements, the rest is up to proper trigger control.

Carrying a loaded Glock is just as safe (maybe moreso) than a cocked and locked 1911. The glock striker based firing system is not under full pressure until the trigger is pulled all the way back.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911. I also love my XD (which uses about the same system as Glock)

You could tell me they are the BEST gun ever produced, bar none and I still wouldn't carry one. I'm suborn like that I guess.

I've also heard the many stories of cops shooting themselves in their leg. Thats where the term "Glock Leg" comes from. Yes, I understand it's not the gun's fault because the cop was the one who actually pulled the trigger, but if it was on safe (of if it even had a safe) it might not have happened. Hell, there is even a video of a cop shooting himself in a classroom. (I'm sure you've sen it)

Like I said it's personal preference. I'm not going to badmouth Glocks, but I wont carry one either. If you guys like them, more power to you...... just be careful.

[budderigs]

I've also heard the many stories of cops shooting themselves in their leg. Thats where the term "Glock Leg" comes from. Yes, I understand it's not the gun's fault because the cop was the one who actually pulled the trigger, but if it was on safe (of if it even had a safe) it might not have happened. Hell, there is even a video of a cop shooting himself in a classroom. (I'm sure you've sen it)

Like I said it's personal preference. I'm not going to badmouth Glocks, but I wont carry one either. If you guys like them, more power to you...... just be careful.

I have seen the videos... I must say those cops where looking for paid leave. it is not that easy to pull the trigger on that gun, to shoot it you have to want to pull the trigger. my wife can barely pull the trigger on my smith. she has to squeeze till her little fingers turn white. all I can say is they modified there gun to be extra sensitive...(removed the trigger safety and installed the 2# spring...) or they shot themselves on purpose.

your preference is yours... im just saying go shoot one, then tell me the trigger is unsafe.

[Gipper]

I have seen the videos... I must say those cops where looking for paid leave.

Many cops have shot themselves that weren't caught on video. It's common enough that there was a term created just for it..... "Glock Leg"

Do you honestly believe a cop would shoot himself just to get paid leave? Wow.

im just saying go shoot one, then tell me the trigger is unsafe.

I have shot a Glock, several times, and I actually thought the trigger was fairly light.

And yes, I still think they're unsafe.

Look, this topic has been beat to death on gun forums. There are 2 groups of gun owners when it comes to pistols.... those who like Glocks and those who don't. Neither group has ever been successful at changing the mind of someone in the opposite group.

[SmithEvo]

I have seen the videos... I must say those cops where looking for paid leave. it is not that easy to pull the trigger on that gun, to shoot it you have to want to pull the trigger. my wife can barely pull the trigger on my smith. she has to squeeze till her little fingers turn white. all I can say is they modified there gun to be extra sensitive...(removed the trigger safety and installed the 2# spring...) or they shot themselves on purpose.

your preference is yours... im just saying go shoot one, then tell me the trigger is unsafe.

Yea, you don't know what your talking about here. While it's not a 3lb trigger, it's not hard to pull

To shoot yourself with any gun, you have to forget all about trigger safety and basic firearms control. Your finger has to ENTER the trigger guard to shoot it. That should never happen unless you've got your sight picture on your target. I firmly believe that the guys that shoot themselves with Glocks would probably end up shooting themselves with something else, safety or no.

Glock leg was also somewhat furnished by a run of Fobus holsters that were made... the passive trigger grip bumps were slightly too big, and were known to push and engage the trigger on the gun when it was holstered