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Okay, this isn't meant to be a scathing thread, but a "sit down and think" thread. And it's also meant to be a helpful thread.
If you're considering any of the popular swaps:
5.0 -> 351
3.8 -> 5.0
4.6 2V -> 4.6 4V
2.3 -> 5.0 (Why or why?)
Then I would highly recommend getting the June 2002 issue of 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords. Contact: FiveOh@primedia.com about getting a possible back issue. All of these articles are very complete and describe the entire swap process for each of these engines.
There are also somethings you want to consider when doing any engine swap:
* What are the plans for your car?
Are you just swapping up because you think you NEED to be faster? Have you tried other options? There's a world of power adders for the 2.3, 3.8, and 5.0 given a little creativity they can be a lot of fun. Supercharger on the 3.8? Hey why not? A little more juice on the 5.0? Sure, shits and giggles!
Here's some 3.8->5.0 Swap links from the Corral... they document everything pretty well and answer some common questions:
* Good General Info
* Number 2
Here's something you might want to do with your V6 instead:
MM&FF V6 Stuff
A 4-cylinder swap is much the same as a V6 swap. Though that's if you keep the same "generations." That is, if you swap a 5.0 into a 2.3 car you have no problem. But if you swap a 4.6 into a 2.3 car you'll have to do some more work.
And if you don't want to swap to a 5.0 then you need to talk to me, StangerJon, and the boys over at TurboFord. We can show ya a little about what that old pinto engine can do.
Now, that you've (hopefully) scanned a little bit of the information above, you still have some more questions you need to ask and answer (honestly).
How much power do you really need?
If your answer is "all I can get! That's what this thing is about!" then you need to step back and think just a little more about how much you really want to make. If you want 400 horsepower there's a few ways to do it and you need to choose which is the most appropriate for you. There's a high-compression 347 that has a helluvan idle. What about a stroker Windsor? A Turbo-2.3 or 3.8 can make 400 horsepower with some work. Let's not for get a nicely built 302 with the NAWS. All those lead you to your goal. More so if you want to drag-race how fast do you really want to go? 12's, 13's? If all you really want is a 13 second car with good street manners you can get it from a 302 with the right suspension parts and learning to drive the car. With some nitrous and a 3.8 you can also see high-13's. If you're road-racing or trying to compete with others then you need to check with the rules before you start modifying. Stock suspension and a worked over engine can quickly put you into a class with vehicles that are far beyond both your skill and vehicles ability.
How much money do you have to spend?
Racing projects are about going fast, for cheap, and getting them done quickly -- *Pick Two*. There are some exceptions to this rule but they come with a lot of experience and an extensive spare parts collection. If you only have $2,000 for the project then you need to honestly sit back and ask yourself how fast you can go for $2,000. $2,000 will cover most same-chassis engines swaps with a few small upgrades. A 5.0 swap with a nice set of intakes and the rest of the proper upgrades can probably be done by most people for around $2,000.
If you're really new, how many tools do you have for the job?
In my experience the following tools were NECESSITIES for an engine swap:
* Cherry picker or "engine hoist" -- Same thing. Unless you and 4 of your best friends are He-man (or even better "Superman") then you will have problems taking an engine out of a car. New these are about $200 (I think mine is a 2.5-ton and was about $300) or you can rent them for about $75/day. I chose to buy mine in preperation for later swaps or possible rebuilds.
* Lots of sockets. While you'll noticibly use your 10 mm and 13mm more than any other sockets, you still need a full range of them (in METRIC!) for removing most things. I would suggest having deep-well versions of most of these and ones with life-time warranties (either S&K's or Craftsman). I've ruined a number of Checker's "powertrade" or whatever their Life-time warranty brand is and they are also pretty good about returning snapped or generally destroyed sockets. 10-20 year old bolts like to rust together. There's a good chance you'll be breaking things.
* A mostly-full 1/2" set. Sometimes it is damn near impossible to get large bolts off with just a 3/8" set of sockets. You might say, break a wrench your father gave you for your birthday. Then when you return it the Sears guy laughs stating that is the 4th Tool that you've returned in the past day. Bleeding, eyes burning, angry, and a little burned from the Propane Torch you've been using to loosen the f*cking bolt you demand a new wrench and continue back to your project.
* Propane Torch. Again, you need something to get those damn bolts loose. You might as well use fire.
* A good Jack. I would really recommend having a 3-ton around for this stuff. Outside of needing to lift the car, support a transmission, etc., you can find many uses for a hydraulic lifting device. The 2.5-tons will work so long as you trust it. I generally prefer the 3-tons with the larger "cups" on them to evenly distribute the weight. In any case, you need a good Jack.
* Soldering Iron + Acc. If you think you'll be crossing wires then you should have a soldering iron. Twisting up the wire and electrical-taping it together is NOT a dependable connection. Things like to "untwist" when heat is applied to them. Some solder, a little bit of connecting wire, and even a low-amperage soldering iron will do loads of good when it comes time to "patching things" together. It's also nice to have this around if you are going to a Carb'd setup as it will let you clean-up the harness a little better. *Note: some swaps won't require any re-wiring to occur -- do your reading first*
* Screwdrivers. Yeah... we all should have them, if you don't... get them. Or at least get a flat head so you can seperate those f*cking wiring connectors. Damn, I hate those wiring connectors.
* Three sizes of hammer: wee, not-so-wee, and FRIGGUN 'UGE! Well, at least a decent size hammer and a bigger one. Things sometimes just need to be pounded apart and a small 5 lbs sledge is just really good at that.
* Pry-bar (Crow-bar).... just trust me... useful.
* This set of tools is optional but highly recommended: An Air Compressor with a good impact wrench!!! This can make short work of MANY of the strugglesi n getting an engine out of a car. I was able to take my motor mounts off in less than 5-minutes with an impact wrench. You'll also be thanking yourself when you can do the shocks and struts yourself with the impact. It really does pay for itself after a while.
Next Question, How much experience do you have? How comfortable are you working on the car?
If you're not terribly mechnically experiences or you're not feeling comfortable about certian parts of the swap you need to sit down and talk to a friend or family-member who IS experienced with these things and find out what sort of outside help you can get. An engine swap is a great learning experience but if you're not ready for it, you'll need LOTS of help. (And lots of tools.)
Some other commonly asked Noob Questions:
(1) Will my tranny survive?
Assuming you're talking about your transmission and not your sexually confused "good friend," then yes it will for a time. 4-cylinder transmissions have obnoxiously weak input shafts and you could screw 'em up. The V6 transmissions are better but you should really think about getting an appropriate AOD(E), T5, or other matching V8 transmission. Being a gambling man I tend to use the weaker transmissions without a ton of hessitation. Sometimes how it's driven is important.
(2) Will my 7.5" rear-end survive?
Witty response: You have a small ass at 7.5".
Real Repsonse: The 7.5" is fine until you start putting things like drag-slicks on it. With a stroker 351 or 5.0 then you will need to upgrade as any traction will problem lead to differential destroying applications of torque. Stock 5.0's or 3.8's (even Supercharged 3.8's) usually don't make enough power to break the rear-end. And if you're only at stock (or lightly modified) power levels then the 7.5 is about 35-lbs in weight savings!
Okay, the long post is done, I hope somebody learned something. If any of y'all want to PM me, I have a copy of the 5.0 article that I can show you about the above mentioned engine swaps.
-Duck
If you're considering any of the popular swaps:
5.0 -> 351
3.8 -> 5.0
4.6 2V -> 4.6 4V
2.3 -> 5.0 (Why or why?)
Then I would highly recommend getting the June 2002 issue of 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords. Contact: FiveOh@primedia.com about getting a possible back issue. All of these articles are very complete and describe the entire swap process for each of these engines.
There are also somethings you want to consider when doing any engine swap:
* What are the plans for your car?
Are you just swapping up because you think you NEED to be faster? Have you tried other options? There's a world of power adders for the 2.3, 3.8, and 5.0 given a little creativity they can be a lot of fun. Supercharger on the 3.8? Hey why not? A little more juice on the 5.0? Sure, shits and giggles!
Here's some 3.8->5.0 Swap links from the Corral... they document everything pretty well and answer some common questions:
* Good General Info
* Number 2
Here's something you might want to do with your V6 instead:
MM&FF V6 Stuff
A 4-cylinder swap is much the same as a V6 swap. Though that's if you keep the same "generations." That is, if you swap a 5.0 into a 2.3 car you have no problem. But if you swap a 4.6 into a 2.3 car you'll have to do some more work.
And if you don't want to swap to a 5.0 then you need to talk to me, StangerJon, and the boys over at TurboFord. We can show ya a little about what that old pinto engine can do.
Now, that you've (hopefully) scanned a little bit of the information above, you still have some more questions you need to ask and answer (honestly).
How much power do you really need?
If your answer is "all I can get! That's what this thing is about!" then you need to step back and think just a little more about how much you really want to make. If you want 400 horsepower there's a few ways to do it and you need to choose which is the most appropriate for you. There's a high-compression 347 that has a helluvan idle. What about a stroker Windsor? A Turbo-2.3 or 3.8 can make 400 horsepower with some work. Let's not for get a nicely built 302 with the NAWS. All those lead you to your goal. More so if you want to drag-race how fast do you really want to go? 12's, 13's? If all you really want is a 13 second car with good street manners you can get it from a 302 with the right suspension parts and learning to drive the car. With some nitrous and a 3.8 you can also see high-13's. If you're road-racing or trying to compete with others then you need to check with the rules before you start modifying. Stock suspension and a worked over engine can quickly put you into a class with vehicles that are far beyond both your skill and vehicles ability.
How much money do you have to spend?
Racing projects are about going fast, for cheap, and getting them done quickly -- *Pick Two*. There are some exceptions to this rule but they come with a lot of experience and an extensive spare parts collection. If you only have $2,000 for the project then you need to honestly sit back and ask yourself how fast you can go for $2,000. $2,000 will cover most same-chassis engines swaps with a few small upgrades. A 5.0 swap with a nice set of intakes and the rest of the proper upgrades can probably be done by most people for around $2,000.
If you're really new, how many tools do you have for the job?
In my experience the following tools were NECESSITIES for an engine swap:
* Cherry picker or "engine hoist" -- Same thing. Unless you and 4 of your best friends are He-man (or even better "Superman") then you will have problems taking an engine out of a car. New these are about $200 (I think mine is a 2.5-ton and was about $300) or you can rent them for about $75/day. I chose to buy mine in preperation for later swaps or possible rebuilds.
* Lots of sockets. While you'll noticibly use your 10 mm and 13mm more than any other sockets, you still need a full range of them (in METRIC!) for removing most things. I would suggest having deep-well versions of most of these and ones with life-time warranties (either S&K's or Craftsman). I've ruined a number of Checker's "powertrade" or whatever their Life-time warranty brand is and they are also pretty good about returning snapped or generally destroyed sockets. 10-20 year old bolts like to rust together. There's a good chance you'll be breaking things.
* A mostly-full 1/2" set. Sometimes it is damn near impossible to get large bolts off with just a 3/8" set of sockets. You might say, break a wrench your father gave you for your birthday. Then when you return it the Sears guy laughs stating that is the 4th Tool that you've returned in the past day. Bleeding, eyes burning, angry, and a little burned from the Propane Torch you've been using to loosen the f*cking bolt you demand a new wrench and continue back to your project.
* Propane Torch. Again, you need something to get those damn bolts loose. You might as well use fire.
* A good Jack. I would really recommend having a 3-ton around for this stuff. Outside of needing to lift the car, support a transmission, etc., you can find many uses for a hydraulic lifting device. The 2.5-tons will work so long as you trust it. I generally prefer the 3-tons with the larger "cups" on them to evenly distribute the weight. In any case, you need a good Jack.
* Soldering Iron + Acc. If you think you'll be crossing wires then you should have a soldering iron. Twisting up the wire and electrical-taping it together is NOT a dependable connection. Things like to "untwist" when heat is applied to them. Some solder, a little bit of connecting wire, and even a low-amperage soldering iron will do loads of good when it comes time to "patching things" together. It's also nice to have this around if you are going to a Carb'd setup as it will let you clean-up the harness a little better. *Note: some swaps won't require any re-wiring to occur -- do your reading first*
* Screwdrivers. Yeah... we all should have them, if you don't... get them. Or at least get a flat head so you can seperate those f*cking wiring connectors. Damn, I hate those wiring connectors.
* Three sizes of hammer: wee, not-so-wee, and FRIGGUN 'UGE! Well, at least a decent size hammer and a bigger one. Things sometimes just need to be pounded apart and a small 5 lbs sledge is just really good at that.
* Pry-bar (Crow-bar).... just trust me... useful.
* This set of tools is optional but highly recommended: An Air Compressor with a good impact wrench!!! This can make short work of MANY of the strugglesi n getting an engine out of a car. I was able to take my motor mounts off in less than 5-minutes with an impact wrench. You'll also be thanking yourself when you can do the shocks and struts yourself with the impact. It really does pay for itself after a while.
Next Question, How much experience do you have? How comfortable are you working on the car?
If you're not terribly mechnically experiences or you're not feeling comfortable about certian parts of the swap you need to sit down and talk to a friend or family-member who IS experienced with these things and find out what sort of outside help you can get. An engine swap is a great learning experience but if you're not ready for it, you'll need LOTS of help. (And lots of tools.)
Some other commonly asked Noob Questions:
(1) Will my tranny survive?
Assuming you're talking about your transmission and not your sexually confused "good friend," then yes it will for a time. 4-cylinder transmissions have obnoxiously weak input shafts and you could screw 'em up. The V6 transmissions are better but you should really think about getting an appropriate AOD(E), T5, or other matching V8 transmission. Being a gambling man I tend to use the weaker transmissions without a ton of hessitation. Sometimes how it's driven is important.
(2) Will my 7.5" rear-end survive?
Witty response: You have a small ass at 7.5".
Real Repsonse: The 7.5" is fine until you start putting things like drag-slicks on it. With a stroker 351 or 5.0 then you will need to upgrade as any traction will problem lead to differential destroying applications of torque. Stock 5.0's or 3.8's (even Supercharged 3.8's) usually don't make enough power to break the rear-end. And if you're only at stock (or lightly modified) power levels then the 7.5 is about 35-lbs in weight savings!
Okay, the long post is done, I hope somebody learned something. If any of y'all want to PM me, I have a copy of the 5.0 article that I can show you about the above mentioned engine swaps.
-Duck
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