Nurse strike back fires!

[bluchev]

I would, but when the Indian beats me down there will only be scab nurses to save me, an almost certain death.

although i disagree with your point of view and opinion, i see no point in beating you up yet.

[Max Power]

I don't claim to be, and never will, I smart enough to know I’m not that smart.

And yet, that never stops you.

Is this about the time where you start throwing "unchristian" into the argument?

[Spiral]

I am anti-union, that is all I have to say.

[svonasek]

The contract is extended until a new contract is reached. The contract did expire, but is extended until a new one is reached. That is the norm for contracted employees.

So only the hospital has to continue honoring the contract? If I was an employer and had a contract between myself and the employee I'm pretty sure I'd put something in there about showing up to work.

As far as I'm concerned as soon as they went on strike that should have ended any contract they had. A strike is pretty much an end to negotiation and strong arm way to try and get what they couldn't get during negotiations.

I'd say they're contracts expired. Terminate their employment and let them re-apply for their old positions.


I'm not anti-union. As I've said before unions have a purpose in the trade industries where employment is seasonal or temporary. The union kind of acts as a temp service for carpenters, electricians etc...

I see no need for the union involvement with any place that hires people on long term.

[TRDon]

I'd say they're contracts expired. Terminate their employment and let them re-apply for their old positions.

They can do that. It will be difficult to find 12000 replacements that fast though.

A strike rarely has a desirable outcome for the people striking. I know what it is about on both sides. The hospitals have to cut to make things profitable and are taking it out on the nurses in the form less than 1/2 the pention that was negotiated in the past and mass rearrangement and possibly risking the patient safety, therefore, the nurses' liscence. Dont for a second think twice that if a patient gets inadequate care because they are stretched thin, that the hospital will back them. They get thrown under the bus and disassociated witht he hospital. It is a legitamate safety concern for patients and a longevity for their own livelyhood for the long term that is the main concern.

There hasnt been a happy medium. Up until now, the contact was good and all negotioations until this one has been in good faith and now they want massive restructuring. Hospitals were profitable up until this point. Why are they looking for such a drastic change now?

If I had a pention that I thought was decent and all of a sudden they were looking to cut it in half, would I not try to fight it. You cant tell me you all wouldnt either. Nobody would just chalk it up to being "a sign of the times" Like I said, I understand both sides, but risking my wife's (and many others) liscence because she is put in scinerios that she no longer has control over, that the hospital wont back if anything goes bad, just so they can have more profit, all the while risking patient care seems dumb to me. If I was in the hospital in a critical care unit, I would want the attention I need, not get what is left over after my nurse has to deal with the 7 other patienst she has besides me.

[kineda]

They can do that. It will be difficult to find 12000 replacements that fast though.

A strike rarely has a desirable outcome for the people striking. I know what it is about on both sides. The hospitals have to cut to make things profitable and are taking it out on the nurses in the form less than 1/2 the pention that was negotiated in the past and mass rearrangement and possibly risking the patient safety, therefore, the nurses' liscence. Dont for a second think twice that if a patient gets inadequate care because they are stretched thin, that the hospital will back them. They get thrown under the bus and disassociated witht he hospital. It is a legitamate safety concern for patients and a longevity for their own livelyhood for the long term that is the main concern.

There hasnt been a happy medium. Up until now, the contact was good and all negotioations until this one has been in good faith and now they want massive restructuring. Hospitals were profitable up until this point. Why are they looking for such a drastic change now?

If I had a pention that I thought was decent and all of a sudden they were looking to cut it in half, would I not try to fight it. You cant tell me you all wouldnt either. Nobody would just chalk it up to being "a sign of the times" Like I said, I understand both sides, but risking my wife's (and many others) liscence because she is put in scinerios that she no longer has control over, that the hospital wont back if anything goes bad, just so they can have more profit, all the while risking patient care seems dumb to me. If I was in the hospital in a critical care unit, I would want the attention I need, not get what is left over after my nurse has to deal with the 7 other patienst she has besides me.

i love everytime people say profits ALL PROFITS ARE REINVESTED INTO THE COMPANY FOR THE PATIENTS AND TO MAKE THE MEDICAL STAFF'S JOBS EASIER...

if direct patient facing healthcare was about profits you would be caring for sick people on dirt floors, writing shit down on a chalkboard for medical records and yelling down the hallway to communicate.

also do you think for a second the entire rest of the company hasnt gone through tremendous restructuring before it rolled down to direct patient facing employees? fuck i wouldnt be surprised with how all of the federal money is changing as well as how the new health insurance system will be structured if the entire industry doesnt go belly up in a few years.

[289Notch]

That is the douchiest comment I have read so far.

tell me how Don. This is a simple concept. Because most, if not all the FT nurses are in the union it's the union vs. hospital. All vs. All. If there was no union it would be thousands of individual disputes. If there was no union there would be no strike. TRUE STORY.

Don, I am 100% anti union and 100% for full reform of the health care system so it's not like I'm taking the other sides position.

[Dustball]

Why do people think they're entitled to pensions? Last I checked, it was a perk and not a requirement.

Some pension is better than NO pension.

[289Notch]

Why do people think they're entitled to pensions? Last I checked, it was a perk and not a requirement.

Some pension is better than NO pension.

because people plan their life off of it. I'd rather have the money and setup my own pension but that's just me.

[TRDon]

tell me how Don. This is a simple concept. Because most, if not all the FT nurses are in the union it's the union vs. hospital. All vs. All. If there was no union it would be thousands of individual disputes. If there was no union there would be no strike. TRUE STORY.

Don, I am 100% anti union and 100% for full reform of the health care system so it's not like I'm taking the other sides position.

Because unions are not the root of all evil like you make it out to be. That is why it is douchy. Some unions have their place in this world and do things that are worthwhile. Not all of them by any means but your generalization is what is douchy.

[TRDon]

(ITSALADY/Liz here)I am happy with the current contract, I would be happy if it stayed the same. The problem is what they want to do to it.

Our contract expired May 31st. We will continue with the same work agreements that we were working under until a new contract is settled. The only thing that changes is the no strike no lockout clause.

Our contract has been formed over many years based on the experiences and needs of both the hospitals and the nurses. With the previous administration, the negotiations have been a very positive experience for the nurses. They would bring things to the table that they felt would improve the work environment, move the profession forward, and also improve the quality of care for the patient. The hospital would bring forth porposals that would benefit them and help their business thrive. The new administration of Allina is approaching these negotions in a much different way, and they are alligning themselves with all of the other hospitals to acheive similar goals. Years ago, nursing care was much different than it is now. The contract, in large part, determines the culture of the nursing care that the patients recieve here in MN. Allina is one of the top 100 hospitals in the nation. The nursing proffession is at a crossroads so to speak, and the results of this negotiation could change the care in MN as a whole.

There is no denying that the hospital as a large business needs to do things to "tighten the belt" and ensure they are making enough money to keep up the technology and equiptment they need to run and stay current. There are many things that the nurses know are realistic changes that will have to be made.

An example of one of the issues (there are pages of contract language they want to eliminate)
The proposal: Eliminate all contract language that prohibits them from moving a nurse from unit to unit, hospital to hospital. And they will exept nothing other than that. They will not allow stipulations requiring them to make us have certain training for certain units.
The hospital says: It is our intentinon to only float you to "like units" with the proper training and it is not our intention to float nurses to other hospitals. It is our intention to make sure the nurse has the proper training for that unit.
The nurses say: Every unit has a "companion unit" that is similar to the one we work on, (3 west and 4 heart are cardiac care and we can float between units) you already have the ability to send us to a "like unit" at your will. Why do you want the language to allow you to float us anywhere if that is "not your intention". And why won't you allow language requiring us to have certain training for certain floors?

What the hospital tells the media and the public about their "intentions" aren't so bad, sure I can agree with that. The above is an example of just ONE proposal set forth by the hospital. They say that their intention is one thing, but yet they won't put their "intentions" in writing. Sure, telling us and the media verbally that they really only INTEND on taking an inch sounds fine, but the contract language they are proposing will allow them to take a MILE.


93SVT: We voted to strike because we looked at all of the proposals and language changes the hospital wanted to make and felt that it was not acceptable to our careers and to our patients. I do not listen to the media garbage. I read the letters sent to me by the hospitals and the union, I read the proposals the hospitals have set forth and I analyze how it will affect my job and the care I am expected to deliver. I go to the employee meetings and listen to the president explain the numbers. Until you read and understand each and every language change line by line, how can you really come down on us so hard? You are basing your opinions on the same media garbage as everyone else. I don't care if you are democrate or republican or antiunion or whatever- your viewpoints should not be based on that. This is about the end result- your care as a patient. You still bleed, you still hurt and you still are subject to the care that I would give you as a patient. Your family of nurses would not accept any less than the best care. Yes, we may have to leave our patients and put them at the mercy of travelers to get this resolved, and yes we don't like that. What would you have us do? Just say Oh, OK you big bad hospital administrators.. do whatever you want. You say if the nurses didn't want to strike why did they? Pull you head out of your ass dude.. seriously.. You say you are so educated and familiar with the situation yet your opions are so far removed from the actual issues. Some day your going to be laying in that hospital bed and maybe then you will get it.

[svonasek]

No offense, but this sound like alot of "it's not my job".

I can't believe the hospital would try and float a nurse into a unit they're not qualified to work in. That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

From what I can get from these posts is that ICU must have the most highly trained nurses, correct?

I could totally see that if ICU was short handed that maybe they'd want to bring a nurse from another unit that isn't qualified to work on his/her own in that unit, but there has to be some common nurse skills that they could atleast help some of the other nurses. Maybe the hospital would rather take someone from a unit that is slow and already on the clock and have them help a busier nurse in ICU. Sounds cheaper then having to call in another person.

What about if ICU is slow? I can't imagine that ICU unit wouldn't be over trained for some of the other areas in the hospital. Maybe they want to be able to have that person cover an easier department.

These are just two example of being able to use a nurse in a "non-like" unit that don't sound like they'd be endangering patients.

[TRDon]

No offense, but this sound like alot of "it's not my job".

I can't believe the hospital would try and float a nurse into a unit they're not qualified to work in. That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

From what I can get from these posts is that ICU must have the most highly trained nurses, correct?

I could totally see that if ICU was short handed that maybe they'd want to bring a nurse from another unit that isn't qualified to work on his/her own in that unit, but there has to be some common nurse skills that they could atleast help some of the other nurses. Maybe the hospital would rather take someone from a unit that is slow and already on the clock and have them help a busier nurse in ICU. Sounds cheaper then having to call in another person.

What about if ICU is slow? I can't imagine that ICU unit wouldn't be over trained for some of the other areas in the hospital. Maybe they want to be able to have that person cover an easier department.

These are just two example of being able to use a nurse in a "non-like" unit that don't sound like they'd be endangering patients.

The ICU has it's own specific training to take the type of patients they take. Cardiac Care has alot of extra training to take heart patients and do the procedures involved with that. The Heart unit has surgical training to take surgical paitients- like open heart patients.

There are a group of Float Pool nurses that do not have a home unit that are trained in different units- some go only to the ICU and Emergency room and some go only to the medical floors. They keep current with the training for those floors, and they will not take the most critical patients on those floors d/t safety.

Yes, your thought is a good one, and it is already available to the hospitals. Currently, if the ICU is short handed they have Float pool nurses that are trained specificallly for ICU and will go to that unit and take the appropriate ICU patients for their skill level.. This is something they have available if they know ahead of time or even if it is a sudden change in the census- they can shift the float pool nurses wherever they like.

Yes, we all have some similar common nurse skills. I know how to give medications and hang IV fluids, do dressing changes, put in catheters and all that. Nursing is more than a set of skills or pill passing. We are required to assess our patients and use critical thinking skills to decide if there is some subtle change that the Doctor needs to know about.

For instance, I have a patient that is being treated for shortness of breath and swelling due to fluid overload caused by heart failure. I gather the morning meds and review the chart. I see that the kidney function level (Creat) yesterday it was 1.10 which is normal. I go into the room and assess the patient, listen to the lungs and note that there is still alot of swelling in the lower legs and the lungs sounds still have crackles. I review the ordered medications. I see that the urine output is down considerably and is dark in color. I see that the kidney function lab is not ordered. I call the doctor and explain my concerns regarding the ordered medications to pull excess fluid off of the body (knowing that they will affect the kidneys) and that I am wondering if he will allow me to get a kidney function test before administering the meds. I order the test and find that the kidney function is now 1.78. The doctor holds the medications and allows the kidney's to rest that day to prevent throwing the patient into kidney failure.

There are subtleties in a patients care that seem insignificant, but are very important in preventing poor outcomes and longer hospital stays. This isn't about "it's not my job" it's about "I want to do my job well" and I am a Cardiac Care nurse. They keep nurses on their home floors as much as possible because it improves patient outcomes. Just like a new nurse that still has to develop her critical thinking skills, if you put me in an unfamiliar environment I will be able to start IV's, administer meds, bandage wounds, give pain meds and all that. But I may miss the subtle things that are important to good outcomes.

Just like when I went back to work on Friday after the strike. Sure the nurses did the basics, but they gave meds that shouldn't have been given based on the labs and based on the test that were supposed to be run. They didn't know any better because they were not Cardiac nurses.. the missed the subtleties. Some patients had to stay another day because of it. Each population of patients has different tests, procedures, meds, and different things to watch out for.

You find it hard to believe they would knowingly put us in a situation that would lead to poor patient outcomes. I would like to believe that too- but the history shows they have. that's why we have our contract language to protect us. In the past, the hospitals and nurses decided together which floors should be paired together as companion units so the hospitals have more flexibility in moving nurses around. We already float to "like units" I go to 4 heart if they need me, it is another heart unit. They tell the public they are seeking something that they already have- flexibility to move us to like units. The contract language they are seeking will allow them to put us anywhere, and they will not allow verbage to specify training or education. If it's not their "intention" to do that.. put your "intentions" in writing so we have something to hold you accountable to.

[specialk922]

Too much words, not reading.

[Fernanernie]

fucking War and Peace

I call

There is no way Don posted that all by himself