Health care without a vote?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • HAULNSS
    Northstar Detail Supply
    • May 2003
    • 11526

    Health care without a vote?



    Democrats scramble for shortcut to approval on health care
    Leaders say some fancy parliamentary footwork could let them pass overhaul without directly voting on it.


    By KEVIN DIAZ, Star Tribune

    Last update: March 16, 2010 - 9:29 PM

    WASHINGTON - Plan B in the Democrats' endgame strategy on health care could be an arcane legislative maneuver that makes the so-called nuclear option sound like a firecracker: National health care reform could pass without a direct vote.

    With a still-uncertain vote tally in the House, Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she might forgo a showdown vote on the Senate-passed health legislation that has been a tough sell with fellow Democrats.

    Instead, in an act of legislative jujitsu, she might have the House vote only on a separate package of amendments that "fix" some unpalatable Senate side deals, such as the infamous Cornhusker Kickback to Nebraska. Voting on those amendments would "deem" the House to have passed the underlying health bill. Democrats are calling it "deem and pass." Republicans call it "deem and scheme."

    The aptly named "self-executing rule" has upped the ante substantially in the waning hours of a long partisan duel over health care. Minnesotans in Congress, like everyone else, are increasingly polarized.

    "This is nothing more than a method to ignore the will of the American people and eliminate accountability for doing so," said Rep. Erik Paulsen, R-Minn. "If the bill was good policy, this wouldn't be necessary."

    "Republicans are objecting because they don't want health reform," said Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn. "They are making a procedural argument because they want to thwart the content of the bill."

    Either way, it could save the Democrats' health care agenda -- and presumably a lot of wavering Democrats who would rather avoid a vote on a Senate bill that some consider politically toxic.

    The plan, yet to be finalized, is now before the House Rules Committee, headed by New York Democrat Louise Slaughter. Hence yet another moniker for the maneuver: "The Slaughter Solution."

    "Now we are in this unusual position of looking at the so-called Slaughter Solution or Slaughter Rule, where the House leadership is working convoluted parliamentary procedures to make sure that their members don't have to vote," said Rep. John Kline, R-Minn. "It's incredible to even think about it."

    If the plan looks like Alice in Wonderland to the Republicans, it's a matter of Realpolitiks to the Democrats.

    "Opponents have vowed to use every tactic possible to obstruct reform, protect insurance companies and let Minnesotans fend for themselves while premiums rise and coverage shrinks," said Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn. "Because Minnesotans need health care reform so badly, we should use every tool at our disposal to pass it."

    Critics have questioned the plan's constitutionality, saying it essentially allows the House to pass a bill without actually voting on it, or worse, approving a bill it doesn't approve of. Hardly the stuff of high school civics classes, they say.

    Democrats respond that it still subjects the health care plan to a simple up-or-down vote, if indirectly, through the amendments package expected to come out of the Rules Committee on Wednesday.

    "Majority rules," said Bill Harper, chief of staff to Rep. Betty McCollum, D-Minn. "If Republicans get more votes, they win. That's democracy."

    Aides to Minnesota Democrats Jim Oberstar and Collin Peterson said they had no comment because no decision has been made yet about whether the tactic will be employed. Sen. Amy Klobuchar and Rep. Tim Walz, Minnesota Democrats who support the health care legislation, did not respond to requests for comment.

    The tactic began in the 1970s as a way to make technical corrections to bills. But over the years it began to be used for more partisan purposes. Both sides acknowledge that both parties have used it before, though never before on legislation of the magnitude of the Obama administration's health care overhaul.

    This week's do-or-die predicament for the Democrats is another outgrowth of their loss in the Massachusetts Senate race, which stripped them of the 60-vote filibuster-proof majority in the Senate by one vote. Any changes to the underlying Senate bill would trigger another vote in the Senate, which the Republicans would be likely to filibuster. So the Democrats need the House to pass the Senate version intact.

    That's why needed changes are being made in a separate amendments package that Senate Democrats plan to pass through a budget reconciliation process that requires only a simple majority. Republicans were already calling that the nuclear option.

    "It's legal," Ellison said. "And it's within the rules.

    Kevin Diaz is a correspondent in the Star Tribune Washington Bureau.





    IB468GTO......
    1995 Impala SS / T56 equipped ~ 1995 Firehawk convertible ~ 1964 Riviera ~ 2015 Silverado crew LTZ 6.2L ~ 2017 Silverado 3500HD High Country ~ 1950 Chrysler Windsor
  • Fosters
    Typical white person
    • Sep 2006
    • 16014

    #2
    After they ram this shit thru, we should do another voting poll to see how many people still admit to voting for Comrade Obama. I have a feeling it'll be the same as with Bush, no one will admit voting for him...
    Originally posted by punch
    SFC is a bag of stupid.
    Capitalization is the difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse & helping your uncle jack off a horse.

    Comment

    • Iroc-Z
      Freeze, turkey!
      • Jul 2004
      • 4993

      #3
      Democrats forcing bill through that no one want. Its more likely then you think.
      Originally posted by xjfish
      we mustang guys are camerowned

      Comment

      • NOTNSS
        x
        • Mar 2004
        • 42731

        #4
        South Canada

        Comment

        • I Tried
          Pull my Winch Line 4 Me.
          • May 2003
          • 6103

          #5
          Only good thing is I the People who voted for him are turning on him all the time now.

          Comment

          • jdominick
            ...
            • Sep 2006
            • 2255

            #6
            Wonder if there is some legal action that can be taken if they force this thru? The politicians think they are above the law and someone needs to show them they are not.

            Comment

            • NOTNSS
              x
              • Mar 2004
              • 42731

              #7
              Originally posted by TC Powderworks View Post
              Wonder if there is some legal action that can be taken if they force this thru? The politicians think they are above the law and someone needs to show them they are not.
              good idea, if only there were a branch of government that could keep them in check.

              Comment

              • Fosters
                Typical white person
                • Sep 2006
                • 16014

                #8
                Originally posted by I Tried View Post
                Only good thing is I the People who voted for him are turning on him all the time now.
                I don't know about that. There are still a lot of SFCs out there...
                Originally posted by punch
                SFC is a bag of stupid.
                Capitalization is the difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse & helping your uncle jack off a horse.

                Comment

                • Southern
                  Brougham
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 34553

                  #9
                  ./ ____ _ _\.
                  (]]]_ o _[[[)
                  \o_FORD_o/
                  |__|.....|__|

                  Comment

                  • orange88
                    Big Turbo F yeah!
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 17865

                    #10
                    anyone else want to move to mexico?
                    Bighley Auto Body
                    www.bighleyautobody.com
                    mike@bighleyautobody.com
                    Dukes race shop
                    Norm's Tire Sales
                    Transport Graphics
                    Aarons Precision Machine

                    Comment

                    • Fosters
                      Typical white person
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 16014

                      #11
                      Originally posted by orange88 View Post
                      anyone else want to move to mexico?
                      What are you gonna do, run back over the border afterwards to get more shit but without having to pay for it?
                      Originally posted by punch
                      SFC is a bag of stupid.
                      Capitalization is the difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse & helping your uncle jack off a horse.

                      Comment

                      • specialk922
                        CAPTAIN CAPS LOCK
                        • Jun 2005
                        • 3237

                        #12
                        Originally posted by orange88 View Post
                        anyone else want to move to mexico?
                        No, there's Mexicans there.

                        Comment

                        • HAULNSS
                          Northstar Detail Supply
                          • May 2003
                          • 11526

                          #13
                          Let them know your feelings....



                          Residents of Minnesota are represented in Congress by 2 Senators and 8 Representatives.

                          Member Name DC Phone DC FAX Electronic Correspondence
                          Senator Amy Klobuchar (D- MN) 202-224-3244 202-228-2186 http://klobuchar.senate.gov/emailamy.cfm

                          Senator Al Franken (D- MN) 202-224-5641 202-224-0044 http://www.franken.senate.gov/contact/

                          Representative Tim Walz (D - 01) 202-225-2472 202-225-3433 https://forms.house.gov/walz/webforms/zip_auth.shtm

                          Representative John Kline (R - 02) 202-225-2271 202-225-2595 http://kline.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=7§iontree=47

                          Representative Erik Paulsen (R - 03) 202-225-2871 202-225-6351 http://paulsen.house.gov/index.cfm?s...id=3§iontree=3

                          Representative Betty McCollum (D - 04) 202-225-6631 202-225-1968 http://forms.house.gov/mccollum/webf..._subscribe.htm

                          Representative Keith Ellison (D - 05) 202-225-4755 202-225-4886 http://forms.house.gov/ellison/webfo..._subscribe.htm

                          Representative Michele Bachmann (R - 06) 202-225-2331 202-225-6475 http://bachmann.house.gov/Email/

                          Representative Collin Peterson (D - 07) 202-225-2165 202-225-1593 http://collinpeterson.house.gov/zipauth.htm

                          Representative Jim Oberstar (D - 08) 202-225-6211 202-225-0699 http://wwwc.house.gov/oberstar/zipauth.htm
                          1995 Impala SS / T56 equipped ~ 1995 Firehawk convertible ~ 1964 Riviera ~ 2015 Silverado crew LTZ 6.2L ~ 2017 Silverado 3500HD High Country ~ 1950 Chrysler Windsor

                          Comment

                          • Turbo302
                            Impossible is only Underfunded
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 1528

                            #14
                            Originally posted by orange88 View Post
                            anyone else want to move to mexico?
                            Unless you feel like being kidnapped, held for ransom, tortured, or caught in the crossfire of crazy gangs...

                            NO

                            I was in Tijuana a few years ago, and if its worse now, I'd stay as far away from Mexico. Something about crooked state cops smoking crack and carrying machine guns doesn't feel so safe to me. The 5400 murder rate in Juarez alone last year isnt so great either.

                            Some crazy stories:
                            Dateline video story about a man held in a box for 7+ months:



                            Crazy drug gangs:
                            The Mexico killings of a US consulate employee, her American husband, and a Mexican citizen affiliated with the consulate in Ciudad Juarez show just how dangerous Mexico's drug war and the border city have become.
                            1988 5.0 Notchback
                            100% Stock 302 Intake to Oil Pan as delivered from FORD Factory
                            100% Stock Driveline (T5, Clutch, 3.08's, control arms etc...)
                            100% Stock ECM/Tune ('88 California Mass air ECM)
                            1 bolt on... Baby Precision TE44 TURBO
                            Best time to date: 11.562 @ 123.37 1.892 60-ft BIR 9/19/08

                            Comment

                            • Scorpner
                              Some posts are Ironic
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 8476

                              #15
                              Originally posted by orange88 View Post
                              anyone else want to move to mexico?
                              I heard the 7-11 is a great place to hang out, meanwhile I'll be in Canada.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X
                              😀
                              😂
                              🥰
                              😘
                              🤢
                              😎
                              😞
                              😡
                              👍
                              👎