Obama - the Russian Perspective

[Fosters]

The country is poor because some of the citizens within it sleep on the floor? Balance sheet of the national economy be damned, he saw someone sleeping on the floor!1111

[Fosters]

Here, perhaps a summary even YOU can follow:

http://dbzer0.com/blog/misunderstanding-communism-its-not-ussr

That will likely be lost on you as well though.

Overwhelmingly, most people’s understanding of what Communism is, comes from an extremely propagandistic presentation of the Soviet Union, generally by US right-wing sources. This would give you the idea that communism is supposed to be very authoritarian, rigidly collectivistic and anti-democratic.

Oh man. So it's only due to the US right-wing portrayal that Communism was portrayed so bad, but it was actually much better?

Are you fucking kidding me? it gets even better:

That is not to say that Russia did not really attempt Communism. It did, and it managed to achieve socialism for a very short while immediately after the revolution. But this newly-fledged socialism was defeated in the most humilating way. Not only did the counter-revolution won over the communists but it kept the name and the symbols to the overjoy of the capitalist of the rest of the world. Russian communism ceased to exist as soon as Stalin came to power.

But if USSR was not Communism what was it? Well, by the way it actually worked, the most fitting description for it is State Capitalism. Simply, the state took on the role of the ultimate Capitalist and set about exploiting the workers.

So USSR tried communism, and was very successful, but then Stalin - the "state" capitalist - came to power, and ruined the name of communism.

Only one way to express this:

[SFC]

Oh man. So it's only due to the US right-wing portrayal that Communism was portrayed so bad, but it was actually much better?

Actually yes, that's entirely accurate. It's the same propaganda machine that's been running around claiming nationalized healthcare is "socialist". The one you've been repeating like a semi-retarded parrot.

Are you fucking kidding me? it gets even better:

So USSR tried communism, and was very successful, but then Stalin - the "state" capitalist - came to power, and ruined the name of communism.

Only one way to express this:

First off, you clearly didn't bother to read the entire page, but we'll ignore that fact for now. It appears you didn't even read the text you quoted. No, it does not say they were communist and wildly successful, what it DOES say is that they achieved SOCIALISM for a short period of time. Subsequently Stalin came to power and lead them to what the author of the page chose to describe as State Capitalism. While you may not agree with the term, his summary of the term is fairly accurate as to what was going on in the USSR at the time.

The USSR was about as communist as Russia is democratic. Which is yet again, in name only (at best).


The closest thing this world has seen to communism is the Linux kernel.

[Fosters]

Actually yes, that's entirely accurate. It's the same propaganda machine that's been running around claiming nationalized healthcare is "socialist". The one you've been repeating like a semi-retarded parrot.



First off, you clearly didn't bother to read the entire page, but we'll ignore that fact for now. It appears you didn't even read the text you quoted. No, it does not say they were communist and wildly successful, what it DOES say is that they achieved SOCIALISM for a short period of time. Subsequently Stalin came to power and lead them to what the author of the page chose to describe as State Capitalism. While you may not agree with the term, his summary of the term is fairly accurate as to what was going on in the USSR at the time.

The USSR was about as communist as Russia is democratic. Which is yet again, in name only (at best).


The closest thing this world has seen to communism is the Linux kernel.

What you and the other marxist ideologists fail to realize is that the utopia promised by "Communism" CANNOT exist. The concept fails simply because equality among people cannot exist. We are not all born equal, we do not have equal aspirations in life, and simply forcing that ideal upon everyone results in lower productivity from everyone as a whole.

If so many nations have tried implementing communism, and all failed miserably - since this world has not seen communism yet - then what makes you think that we should attempt it? Are you really willing to gamble everyone's lifestyle on an unproven theory and ideology because you think that promised utopia sounds that much better than what we have now?

What, in your opinion, would make the US succeed at implementing communism where all other countries failed?

Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You sir, are insane.

[Fosters]

Also, in case you forgot what capitalism stands for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

"Capitalism is an economic system in which wealth, and the means of producing wealth, are privately owned."

"State capitalism", by definition, is a misnomer. That's like saying private collectivism.

[00Formula]

What you and the other marxist ideologists fail to realize is that the utopia promised by "Communism" CANNOT exist. The concept fails simply because equality among people cannot exist. We are not all born equal, we do not have equal aspirations in life, and simply forcing that ideal upon everyone results in lower productivity from everyone as a whole.

If so many nations have tried implementing communism, and all failed miserably - since this world has not seen communism yet - then what makes you think that we should attempt it? Are you really willing to gamble everyone's lifestyle on an unproven theory and ideology because you think that promised utopia sounds that much better than what we have now?

What, in your opinion, would make the US succeed at implementing communism where all other countries failed?

Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You sir, are insane.

No one except the repubes that got taken out of power via democratic process (and their supporters) are stating that we should or are trying to implement communist rule.

...and granted although some programs may be soliacist in nature, this country hasn't been fully capitalist in many years (i.e. minimum wage).

Once again, I know you're not dumb enough to claim that socialism has never succeeded.

[fuzzy moonunit]

You're kidding right? Have you been? We have an office there and the vast majority of people there are REALLY FUCKING POOR, when they were building our office a senior designer went in early one morning and found 20 Chinese sleeping on the floor, some washing their cloths in the sink, the funny part is those 20 guys, sleeping in their underwear at a construction site are probably in the top 20% of their wealth brackets! You're a moron if you think they have it anywhere close to as good as we have it here, the place is a fucking dump.

This post wins face-palm of the year award.

[Max Power]

Pravda means Truth

Pravda means high quality vodka product at a reasonable price.

[Fosters]

No one except the repubes that got taken out of power via democratic process (and their supporters) are stating that we should or are trying to implement communist rule.

...and granted although some programs may be soliacist in nature, this country hasn't been fully capitalist in many years (i.e. minimum wage).

Once again, I know you're not dumb enough to claim that socialism has never succeeded.

When is the fact that we haven't been fully capitalist (and who exactly is pushing for higher minimum wage again? the repubes? or the kleptocrats?) - when has that fact become an excuse to go further away from capitalism and further into socialism?

I'm not saying we'll be socialist overnight; but where does it stop? Homes for everyone a`la community reinvestment act and federal housing enterprises financial safety and soundness act? Healthcare for everyone a`la Obama? cars for everyone a`la Massachusetts?

Give me an example of where it has succeeded; and by succeeded, I mean the working middle class was better off in the end, than in a similar capitalist environment.

SFC's Linux example would only apply to the real world if he can somehow devise a way to make it so a few thousand 'contributors' can design something, like a car, or a food crop, then have the thing copied over 6 billion times for everyone with nothing more than the push of a button.

[Max Power]

Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You sir, are insane.

Congrats on using perhaps THE single most played out quote in the history of the internet and displaying it as if it was fresh and revelatory.

Two bear falling graphic "Oh Snaps" for you sir.

[00Formula]

When is the fact that we haven't been fully capitalist (and who exactly is pushing for higher minimum wage again? the repubes? or the kleptocrats?) - when has that fact become an excuse to go further away from capitalism and further into socialism?

I'm not saying we'll be socialist overnight; but where does it stop? Homes for everyone a`la community reinvestment act and federal housing enterprises financial safety and soundness act? Healthcare for everyone a`la Obama? cars for everyone a`la Massachusetts?

Give me an example of where it has succeeded; and by succeeded, I mean the working middle class was better off in the end, than in a similar capitalist environment.

SFC's Linux example would only apply to the real world if he can somehow devise a way to make it so a few thousand 'contributors' can design something, like a car, or a food crop, then have the thing copied over 6 billion times for everyone with nothing more than the push of a button.

There are several prosperous nations that are a socialist govt (Canada, France, etc.)

I won't say some of the measures aren't extreme but you'd be damning him just as much if he did nothing, the repubes have yet to put a viable, common sense plan on the table (other then yelling out generalities like cut taxes and what not with out any elaboration).

I saw the unwarranted wire taps, restricted freedoms based on the "it's for your own good" mentality, unchecked govt contracts and man made product shortages as more a throwback to living in the USSR then anything else.

Bottom line is that Kurt tried to state that the opinion of the Russian people is that Obama is a marxist...then he proceeds to provide one example from a tabloid....that's like saying that all US citizens agree with each other on all things political.

[SFC]

What you and the other marxist ideologists fail to realize is that the utopia promised by "Communism" CANNOT exist. The concept fails simply because equality among people cannot exist. We are not all born equal, we do not have equal aspirations in life, and simply forcing that ideal upon everyone results in lower productivity from everyone as a whole.

So the linux kernel doesn't exist?

If so many nations have tried implementing communism, and all failed miserably - since this world has not seen communism yet - then what makes you think that we should attempt it? Are you really willing to gamble everyone's lifestyle on an unproven theory and ideology because you think that promised utopia sounds that much better than what we have now?

So many nations have tried implementing democracy and all have failed miserably as well. You think because the US has been in power for a VERY short time span in the history of the world we're *SUCCESSFUL*?

What, in your opinion, would make the US succeed at implementing communism where all other countries failed?

Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You sir, are insane.

At exactly what point in this discussion did I claim the US should implement communism? Or is this another one of those situations where you're brain can't process the fact that because I can see the merit's of communism, it doesn't mean I expect, or even want to live under the system?

Seeing the other side: Fosters can't do it.

[Fosters]

There are several prosperous nations that are a socialist govt (Canada, France, etc.)

Again, prosperous nation, but how are the people doing? Romania was prosperous by your definition during communism, we had no debt, in fact, people owed us money. Yet people risked getting shot to get out of that country.

Ask someone from Canada how their nationalized healthcare system works.

I won't say some of the measures aren't extreme but you'd be damning him just as much if he did nothing, the repubes have yet to put a viable, common sense plan on the table (other then yelling out generalities like cut taxes and what not with out any elaboration).

That's the beauty of capitalism. The markets, made up of PRIVATE SECTOR driven competition (not Obama Motors and Citi bank) dictate. Look at how well New York and California is doing. Or Iceland...

I saw the unwarranted wire taps, restricted freedoms based on the "it's for your own good" mentality,

Aside from wire taps, what other restricted freedoms are you talking about? Like the dog breed bans pushed by a bunch of democrats? Or the smoking bans pushed by a bunch of democrats? Or the recockulous (new word for ya SFC) emissions recently pushed way the fuck up by a bunch of democrats (emissions that are gonna kill our freedom of buying a v8 in the near future)?

As for the wire taps, and national security, after a recent attack, yes, we have to do whatever is necessary to protect LIFE. If you mean to tell me you'd rather risk US lives over that freedom, or that it somehow compares in purpose to the others mentioned above, you're out of your fucking mind.

unchecked govt contracts

None of those in the 800 billion stimulus package... right? It's all transparent and shit now...

and man made product shortages as more a throwback to living in the USSR then anything else.

You mean like the drilling bans placed and voted for by the dems?

Bottom line is that Kurt tried to state that the opinion of the Russian people is that Obama is a marxist...then he proceeds to provide one example from a tabloid....that's like saying that all US citizens agree with each other on all things political.

And then SFC came in and claimed Stalin was a capitalist and ruined the beautiful communism they had for a short while.

[Fosters]

So the linux kernel doesn't exist?



So many nations have tried implementing democracy and all have failed miserably as well. You think because the US has been in power for a VERY short time span in the history of the world we're *SUCCESSFUL*?





At exactly what point in this discussion did I claim the US should implement communism? Or is this another one of those situations where you're brain can't process the fact that because I can see the merit's of communism, it doesn't mean I expect, or even want to live under the system?

Seeing the other side: Fosters can't do it.

Is this another one of those situations where your brain is incapable of processing English grammar?

[Ruiner]

OBAMA LAMA, WHAT'S YOUR DRAMA!