GM mulls 4-cylinder engine for new Camaro

[Fosters]

Saftey.

stronger crumple zones, occupant cages, door bars, airbags all around, ABS brakes, stronger seats, pretensioners and load limiters, the "black box".

Comfort

More sound deadening, thicker glass, power seats/windows/mirrors/locks/hatch/trunk release. More speakers, a CD changer, more seat cushion.

Emissions

Fuel injection, a mile of extra wire, multiple catalytic converters.


It's amazing how cars have changed and gotten heavier over the last 30 years.

I'll agree on the safety stuff; however, abs doesn't weigh as much as you think. it's 4 exciter rings, 4 sensors, and some wires to the computer.

Comfort, agreed. every import jizzmopper on here will go "oh domestics all have plastic interiors". what baffles me is, outside of the higher end bimmers, mercedes, lexus, and so on, 90% of the cars out there are just plastic interiors with varying degrees of chrome paint or aluminum paint bling. Have you ever seen the seats in a GTO? good lord they're like a foot thick.. You don't need 2 lazy boys and a sofa in a sportscar.

Fuel injection, I don't think weighs anymore than a carb. catalytic converters on the other hand, oh dear lord. mustang had 6 of them bastards. the mid pipe to this date is by far the biggest weight reduction i've done. the muffler on my truck is like 4 ft long and 1 ft diameter. no wonder catback manufacturers are advertising mpg gains with their products, they're counting on the weight reduction...

[Fosters]

Oh noes you took clips of a side tracked conversation with someone and edited them all so I looks dumb! Oh no! I hope someone doesn't post an owned picture because I so clearly got owned here.

if side tracked = this exact discussion, and "someone" = this entire forum, then yeah, your statement is accurate. otherwise i'd say he's right on the money. you're trying to make a point you don't have.

[Mullet Tuner]

I'll agree on the safety stuff; however, abs doesn't weigh as much as you think. it's 4 exciter rings, 4 sensors, and some wires to the computer.

Comfort, agreed. every import jizzmopper on here will go "oh domestics all have plastic interiors". what baffles me is, outside of the higher end bimmers, mercedes, lexus, and so on, 90% of the cars out there are just plastic interiors with varying degrees of chrome paint or aluminum paint bling. Have you ever seen the seats in a GTO? good lord they're like a foot thick.. You don't need 2 lazy boys and a sofa in a sportscar.

Fuel injection, I don't think weighs anymore than a carb. catalytic converters on the other hand, oh dear lord. mustang had 6 of them bastards. the mid pipe to this date is by far the biggest weight reduction i've done. the muffler on my truck is like 4 ft long and 1 ft diameter. no wonder catback manufacturers are advertising mpg gains with their products, they're counting on the weight reduction...

My ABS/TCS system weighed 19 lbs including some wiring that I pulled from it. The proportioning valve I added weighed less than a half pound....

[Mullet Tuner]

Either way, American car manufacturer's can't make a v6 worth dick. Hell, their V8s blow when compared to the amazing shit Mercedes, BMW, Nissan and Toyota can make. American cars are shit, and you won't see me buying another one.

How do the V8s blow? I would put GM and Ford engines above the Toyota and Nissans. (only comparable ones in price) If those engines were so great, all of the import nutswingers would be swapping those into the 240s, RX7s, etc.

[Fosters]

I also like the fact that the parts aren't stressed as much as a lower ci engine.

that's a very good point i usually love to see... can't exactly name a reliable 4banger (or small engine in general) that makes the same power as a v8 for any decent amount of time. when pushed to 300+ whp; DSM's? newp. RX7s? newp. SRT4s newp. and at the same time, the power curve on these motors gets ridiculous; not even close to that of a v8.

[Steve]

How do the V8s blow? I would put GM and Ford engines above the Toyota and Nissans. (only comparable ones in price) If those engines were so great, all of the import nutswingers would be swapping those into the 240s, RX7s, etc.

$$$ You have to pay for the good stuff. A Chevy or Ford with a bunch of aftermarket parts is much different than what rolls off the assembly lines.

Here is an example of the truck numbers

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/26/5-7-liter-v8-in-toyota-tundra-will-produce-381-horsepower/

Plus you can't hardly argue with the reliability Toyota has delivered for the past 20 years.

Go buy American, someone has to in order to keep jobs here, but for my $30K I'll buy something I like.

One more thing...Why does anyone who likes something/someone different become a nutswinger? Is that the defense mechanism against something different?

[Fosters]

$$$ You have to pay for the good stuff. A Chevy or Ford with a bunch of aftermarket parts is much different than what rolls off the assembly lines.

Here is an example of the truck numbers

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/26/5-7-liter-v8-in-toyota-tundra-will-produce-381-horsepower/

Plus you can't hardly argue with the reliability Toyota has delivered for the past 20 years.

Go buy American, someone has to in order to keep jobs here, but for my $30K I'll buy something I like.

oh yes you can argue with the reliability toyota has delivered in the past 20 years. because the toyotas of the 80s that you're thinking about are now almost 30 years old. and because toyota has had more recalls than any other manufacturer out there for the past 4-5 years. Toyota has been the media's child for far too long, and customers are finally getting to figure out the hard way that they're not what they used to be. if you got a toyota in the past 5 years, you've either done a major safety recall or you're a road hazard. losing control of steering wheel or losing a ball joint are not fun driving down the road.

I'm glad you're one of the dipshits that thinks the 381hp wonder that is the tundra motor is the greatest thing since sliced bread. did you ever see a dyno of one of those things? peak torque at 4900 rpm. that's exactly what you need in a truck, right? or is the gearing they use to hide that problem making it ok ?

[Steve]

Ah, you were so close to having a mature discussion then you resorted to name calling. I was referring to the engines, anyway. All arguments aside, if the American automotive industry does not change they will be in a world of hurt.

[Fosters]

Ah, you were so close to having a mature discussion then you resorted to name calling. I was referring to the engines, anyway. All arguments aside, if the American automotive industry does not change they will be in a world of hurt.

i took the shortcut, that's where all these arguments end up anyway. you should move to california. I know someone there who thinks a lot like you...

[Steve]

Have fun with $4.00 per gallon gas this summer, sir. I hope you think of Apple Pie and all that shit every fill up. I know you will think of me and our discussion.

That is all.

[OrangeCrush 86]

There are no more muscle cars, that was 40 years ago.

I don't see why anyone cares, they are not dropping the V8. No one on this forum will buy one of these when they come out anyways!

[SS1LE02]

The 4 cylinder is for fleet fuel economy. People who want the looks without the performance will check off this option.

A turbo 4 would give better fuel economy than the 6 with near equal power.

Plz die thread.

[Fosters]

Have fun with $4.00 per gallon gas this summer, sir. I hope you think of Apple Pie and all that shit every fill up. I know you will think of me and our discussion.

That is all.

fortunately, i'm well enough off that gas alone will not stop me from driving almost any kind of vehicle. if you buy a 30,000 dollar car and you can't afford the gas for it, when gas goes from $3 to $4 (which has been the rumor now for HOW MANY YEARS??) you got other problems.

at 10mpg, 12k miles per year, you'll be using 1200 gallons of gas, that's either 3600 dollars or 4800 dollars per year. if 1200 dollars per year, or 100 bucks a month dictates what kind of car you're gonna drive, maybe you should stick to econo shoeboxes.

The 4 cylinder is for fleet fuel economy. People who want the looks without the performance will check off this option.

A turbo 4 would give better fuel economy than the 6 with near equal power.

Plz die thread.

aye... the point in some of these posts was the 4 banger won't get much more mpg than the v8 even... gotta thank the stupid CAFE requirements tho. that's one thing Bush did that I fully disagree with.

[Steve]

fortunately, i'm well enough off that gas alone will not stop me from driving almost any kind of vehicle. if you buy a 30,000 dollar car and you can't afford the gas for it, when gas goes from $3 to $4 (which has been the rumor now for HOW MANY YEARS??) you got other problems.

at 10mpg, 12k miles per year, you'll be using 1200 gallons of gas, that's either 3600 dollars or 4800 dollars per year. if 1200 dollars per year, or 100 bucks a month dictates what kind of car you're gonna drive, maybe you should stick to econo shoeboxes.




aye... the point in some of these posts was the 4 banger won't get much more mpg than the v8 even... gotta thank the stupid CAFE requirements tho. that's one thing Bush did that I fully disagree with.

I am sure there are many people out there that are glad you are willing to spend $5K per year on gas. Great, I am glad for you! I consider myself well off, as well, and am not as willing to shell out the dough. Even with my preference of econo-shoeboxes that get roughly 30mpg, I will only spend $1600 if I drive 12K miles per year...but you are missing the big point!

The U.S. imports almost two-thirds of the oil we use. Over the next 20 years, our dependence on foreign oil could be almost completely eliminated if the average fuel economy increases to 45 mpg instead of 25 mpg.

[Fosters]

I am sure there are many people out there that are glad you are willing to spend $5K per year on gas. Great, I am glad for you! I consider myself well off, as well, and am not as willing to shell out the dough. Even with my preference of econo-shoeboxes that get roughly 30mpg, I will only spend $1600 if I drive 12K miles per year...but you are missing the big point!

The U.S. imports almost two-thirds of the oil we use. Over the next 20 years, our dependence on foreign oil could be almost completely eliminated if the average fuel economy increases to 45 mpg instead of 25 mpg.

I'm glad you were so able to figure out the fact that I spend 5000 dollars a year on gas. especially when I don't get 10mpg (more like 14 now) and nor is gas $4 yet, nor has it ever been. I posted that as a worst case scenario/easiest math scenario. the point of it was so that you see the actual increase is not large at all - 100 bucks a month. that, again, is worst case scenario. If i was to do a real world scenario between my truck (what it actually does get for mpg) and any kind of respectable car that would fit my needs for space and comfort (aka the kinds that get in the low-mid 20s for mpg), that increase would be much smaller even. Gas is simply not as expensive as some people make it be.

I don't consider myself well off, i said I consider myself well off to the point that a dollar up or down on gas prices isn't gonna make or break my finances. I'm not gonna be able to afford that Enzo if gas drops to 2 dollars a gallon, and I'm not gonna be riding a scooter if it goes to $4/gal.