A bee stops a train?

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  • SFC
    I know drama
    • Jun 2004
    • 24976

    #16
    Originally posted by Stormwalker
    "The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."

    --Heisenberg, uncertainty paper, 1927

    This is a succinct statement of the "uncertainty relation" between the position and the momentum (mass times velocity) of a subatomic particle, such as an electron. This relation has profound implications for such fundamental notions as causality and the determination of the future behavior of an atomic particle.

    Because of the scientific and philosophical implications of the seemingly harmless sounding uncertainty relations, physicists speak of an uncertainty principle, which is often called more descriptively the "principle of indeterminacy."

    The uncertainty relations have to do with the measurement of these four properties; in particular, they have to do with the precision with which these properties can be measured. Up until the advent of quantum mechanics, everyone thought that the precision of any measurement was limited only by the accuracy of the instruments the experimenter used. Heisenberg showed that no matter how accurate the instruments used, quantum mechanics limits the precision when two properties are measured at the same time.

    These are not just any two properties but two that are represented by variables that have a special relationship in the equations. The technical term is "canonically conjugate" variables.

    For the moving electron, the canonically conjugate variables are in two pairs: momentum and position are one pair, and energy and time are another. Roughly speaking, the relation between momentum and position is like the relation between energy and time.

    The uncertainty relations involve the uncertainties in the measurements of these variables. The "uncertainty" -- sometimes called the "imprecision"--is related to the range of the results of repeated measurements taken for a given variable.

    For example, suppose you measure the length of a book with a meter stick. It turns out to be 23.6 cm, or 23 centimeters and 6 millimeters. But since the meter stick measures only to a maximum precision of 1 mm, another measurement of the book might yield 23.7cm or 23.5 cm.

    In fact, if you perform the measurement many times, you will get a "bell curve" of measurements centered on an average value, say 23.6 cm. The spread of the bell curve, or the "standard deviation," will be about 1 mm on each side of the average. This means that the "uncertainty" or the precision of the measurement is plus or minus 1 mm.

    Someone stayed at a holiday inn last night!
    You stay classy Chet Beireis
    Originally posted by Paul Revere
    I can't wait for that ****** to take all the credit


    PITBULLS KILL KIDS!!!
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    • HerrKooled
      TCS Homer
      • Nov 2005
      • 12060

      #17
      Originally posted by Emart96
      Trains dont have windshields.

      And I had a number 1 meal from McDonalds for lunch. And a double cheeseburger. And some ice cream. And I substituted the pop for milk.
      can't go wrong with a big mac
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfpyB6AC9ak

      Comment

      • Mullet Tuner
        TCS Homer
        • Apr 2004
        • 15906

        #18
        Originally posted by Emart96
        Trains dont have windshields.

        And I had a number 1 meal from McDonalds for lunch. And a double cheeseburger. And some ice cream. And I substituted the pop for milk.
        Thats good you substitued the pop for milk. Now your eating healthy.
        Originally posted by Gerald
        black z is a TCS fgt he should sell that z and go buy a blown 87 gt so he could be a true TCS fgt

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        • PHRANQUY
          Grrrr...
          TCS Auto-X Driver
          • May 2004
          • 12166

          #19
          Originally posted by Emart96
          Trains dont have windshields.

          And I had a number 1 meal from McDonalds for lunch. And a double cheeseburger. And some ice cream. And I substituted the pop for milk.
          Fine...windscreen?
          "A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station... you figure it out ..."

          Comment

          • fuzzy moonunit
            TCS Homer
            • Oct 2002
            • 4860

            #20
            Originally posted by Stormwalker
            "The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."

            --Heisenberg, uncertainty paper, 1927
            just because you can copy and paste articles on heisenberg's uncertainty principle, doesnt mean it applies in any way shape or form.

            this question falls apart before the train and bee even enter it. its called a false premise. two objects being in contact in no way dictates that they will travel at the same velocity in the same direction.

            Comment

            • Emart
              Made
              • Jan 2005
              • 6019

              #21
              Originally posted by black z
              Thats good you substitued the pop for milk. Now your eating healthy.



              Hey no pointing fingers, I work out more than you do!

              Comment

              • Joe M
                Mustangless
                • Jul 2003
                • 18133

                #22
                Originally posted by Emart96
                Trains dont have windshields.

                And I had a number 1 meal from McDonalds for lunch. And a double cheeseburger. And some ice cream. And I substituted the pop for milk.


                Trains have winshields...

                And, the toilet youll be on will wish it had one too!

                Comment

                • X32 lARO
                  Your Wisdom Is Profound.
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 2868

                  #23
                  Originally posted by MisterCMK
                  Two objects moving while in physical contact with each other, will be moving at the same velocity.

                  EXAMPLE - You tape two golf balls together. The are in contact with each other. You throw them across the yard. They stay in contact. They travel at the same velocity.


                  So here's the puzzler:

                  A train is riding down the tracks at 50 mph. (moving say, L to R)
                  A honey bee is flying down the track in the opposite direction from the train. (R to L)
                  The bee files head on into the windshield of the train.
                  The bee's velocity goes from moving R to L, down to zero, then reverses direction to move (along with the train) from L to R.


                  So, for an instant, the bee's velocity is zero.
                  At that same instant the bee is smacked flat against the trains windshield (obviously in full contact with the train).
                  So, how does the bee stop the train for that instant in time?


                  It doesn't,the trains momentum is unhindered.
                  TurkeyLick ItThe Idiot Test Screw Her GentlyPrison SexConcentrationPing Pong Are You Dumb?

                  Comment

                  • ClassicChrysler
                    Mopar Only!
                    • Nov 2002
                    • 2306

                    #24
                    The last thing to go through that Bee's mind was his ass!
                    Johns Auto Repair and Auto Electric
                    Wanna Start Something?

                    Comment

                    • Video_Master
                      Kickin it Hybrid Style
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 10524

                      #25
                      I'm not sure about the bee, but I can prove that 1+0=0

                      Comment

                      • TurboX2
                        friend of the machines
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 3245

                        #26
                        Originally posted by X32 lARO
                        It doesn't,the trains momentum is unhindered.
                        Not true, in this extreme case of weight differential it may be beyond current ability to measure, but there has to be a reaction. Put the tip of your index finger on the desk by your keyboard, are you bending the desk? Yes you are....
                        Dan Simons
                        '11 5.0, 400a, 3.73s, HIDs, ARH 1-7/8" longtubes, Forgestar CF5v 19x9/10, MPSS 275/295, GT500 axle-back, Steeda springs, AirRaid CAI, BBK 85mm, AED tune

                        Comment

                        • MisterCMK
                          Montgomery C. Meigs
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 13910

                          #27
                          There is no way the bee stops the train, at least the train relative to the ground. Because the law of conservation of momentum says "if no external forces act on a closed system, the total momentum of the masses in the system will not change." This means that the momentum of the train and the bee before the collision have to equal the momentum of the train and the bee after the colision. Physics would not allow the bee to stop the train relative to the ground. If you have a 50,000 kg train going 10 m/s, it has a momentum of 500,000 kgxmxs. If the bee had a mass of 1 kg and was traveling 10 m/s, it has a momentum of 10 kgxmxs. since they are traveling in opposite directions, you have to subtract the momentum of the bee from the momentum of the train, so 500,000 kgxmxs - 10 kgxmxs =499,990 kgxmxs. If the bee stopped the train relative to the ground, the momentum of the train would be 50,000kg x 0 m/s which give the train a momentum of 0 kgxmxs, and the bee is also stopped on the trains windshield, which would give it a momentum of 10kg x 0 m/s = 0 m/s. ITS NOT POSSIBLE.

                          BUT!!!!!, For the bee relative to the train, like the first post stated, two objects moving in physical contact with each other will be moving at the same velocity. So at that instant when the bee's velocity was zero, and in that same instant it was in FULL contact with the windshield, the trains velocity was zero. Right? If 2 objects are in contact with each other, then they have the same velocity. So if the bee is in contact with the train, and the bee's velocity is zero, then the trains velocity must be zero.
                          Does this make sense?
                          LOOK HERE:
                          Originally posted by Pony5.0
                          but hey we have broken up 2 times in the past week and she keeps crawling back to me and she told me she would never crawl back to a guy and i am the only one. she tells me she loves me and everything!

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                          You ever make 150k per year? LOL, j/k we all know you're way too dumb to achieve this.

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                          Comment

                          • X32 lARO
                            Your Wisdom Is Profound.
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 2868

                            #28
                            Originally posted by TurboX2
                            Not true, in this extreme case of weight differential it may be beyond current ability to measure, but there has to be a reaction. Put the tip of your index finger on the desk by your keyboard, are you bending the desk? Yes you are....
                            It does but the reactive force would have to be imperceptible as you stated.
                            TurkeyLick ItThe Idiot Test Screw Her GentlyPrison SexConcentrationPing Pong Are You Dumb?

                            Comment

                            • X32 lARO
                              Your Wisdom Is Profound.
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 2868

                              #29
                              Originally posted by MisterCMK
                              Does this make sense?
                              Yes,it does.
                              If you stop time for an instant,you also stop movement.
                              Last edited by X32 lARO; 12-10-2005, 03:21 PM.
                              TurkeyLick ItThe Idiot Test Screw Her GentlyPrison SexConcentrationPing Pong Are You Dumb?

                              Comment

                              • Mullet Tuner
                                TCS Homer
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 15906

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Emart96



                                Hey no pointing fingers, I work out more than you do!
                                It was a joke man.
                                Originally posted by Gerald
                                black z is a TCS fgt he should sell that z and go buy a blown 87 gt so he could be a true TCS fgt

                                Comment

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