Just had this as a thought

[2001Ponypower]

SO I was thinking, we're entering another great automotive era; it's not the same as the late '60s exactly, but cars keep getting more powerful and faster. Will this trend continue or will we have some odd event or series of them that will end our era? Anyone else have their two cents?

In the late 60s and early 70s Mustangs and other muscular cars were capable of 13 sec 1/4 miles and had some out of this world HP #s. Of course with the oil embargo, sets of gov't mandates and hard economic times, cars had to become a little more "practical" for about 15 years. In the later 80s and up to date Trucks and Pony Cars have been upping their Hp #s again and getting faster again. Here we sit in 2005 with a Mustang that is probably capable of 13.5 sec in 1.4 mile, shoots to sixty in about 5.5 secs and gets 300 hp out of SOHC V8.
Where will we be in 2009?

[SFC]

Hard to answer that without getting politcal which in turn will start all the bs flame wars but... we'll probably be back into the 70's/80's shitboxes by the end of the decade if current trends continue. Plus with computers playing a bigger and bigger role it's going to just keep getting tougher to mod the cars on the cheap.

[mnstang]

well, gas prices will only keep going up and up, that's bad. some day they'll run out of gas completely and we'll have to mod electric cars, in which case i'll be 2 steps ahead of all of you

[Sleeper]

yeah, the next step will be electric cars. the horsepower wars are on, but I bet gas prices spike again just like in the early 70s. then there will be a big push for electric cars.

I'd drive an electric car if it will do everything my current car does...it doesnt really matter to me. The only bad part is, take your torque curve and flip it upside down and thats what you have with an electric motor...booo...

Did you know...in 1908...there was one electric car for every two gas cars...today we are far from that, but it will be back.

[SVT5LITER]

I feel we've been in a new "muscle car" era for a while now. It's great! We're getting 400hp motors like it's nothin' now... and 500hp motors are in some vehicles, and being developed for others.
But I would think at that hp rating... we've kind of topped out. Does a guy really need over 500hp on the street? How long will we be allowed to buy such incredible motors with those kind of numbers?
There's just alot of very cool rides out right now, and it's exciting. I hope this doesn't come to an end and reverse like stated.. or that the current over priced gas doesn't jump way up to new levels and stay there.

[Stormwalker]

I think this differs from the muscle car era, because of the cost factor. I remember my uncle telling me that he worked part time through highschool and saved up, and when he was ready to graduate highschool, he went out and bought a brand new Chevrolet Bel-air. Can you work part time for three years, save up, and buy a brand new (nice) car now? Heck no. Take the late 60s Chevelle for instance. You could pick one of those up brand new with cash if you saved up enough, otherwise the loan would not take long to pay off. There were exceptions, such as the GTO was considered very expensive. But today, new cars are a lot more expensive. A 396 Chevelle was considered very fast. Today, Porsches and Vipers are considered very fast, but are unaffordable. In the 60s, believe it or not, that revolutionary aluminum-headed Porsche was affordable! Even the new Mustang is expensive. You will not see me buy a new car anytime soon, they just cost too much money for what they are in my opinion. Christ, a Mustang GT in the mid to late 80s was barely over 10G.

[SVT5LITER]

I agree to that too... most performance cars aren't exactly "cheap" anymore. So we're in an somewhat overpriced modern muscle car era

[Sleeper]

not really....a loaf of bread was $.15...now it's ~$1.50...thats 10x more expensive.

an old GTO was ~$3,300...the new GTO is ~$33,000...

maybe it's just the wages that suck.

[Sleeper]

and nevermind the fact that the new cars will run twice as long while polluting less than half as much....and you get have leather interior, A/C, CD player, abs, airbags, cruise, SEAT BELTS, safety glass, and power everything...plus suspensions that doesn't require maintenence for 100K miles and brake pads that go for 75K....

old engines were considered used up at 60K, they needed a rebuild...now we are passing 200K out of a gas IC engine. amazing.


you get more for your money.

[SFC]

not really....a loaf of bread was $.15...now it's ~$1.50...thats 10x more expensive.

an old GTO was ~$3,300...the new GTO is ~$33,000...

maybe it's just the wages that suck.

that's exactly right... but my dad was also making 3.50 an hour then as a high schooler, I sure as fuck didn't make 35$/hr when I was in HS, I dunno about you. The cost of EVERYTHING went up, the wages sure as shit didn't.

[68GTO]

Guys, you are basing your comparisons on single-item costs and analogies that may not hold true. You must consider changes in manufacturing, total units produces, distribution channels. What we really need to do is index the dollar against inflation. Consider wage inflation as much as cost inflation. On another note, the cost of gas, inflation adjusted is CHEAPER than it was in the 70s. We may complain about the rise of late, but it is an amazing bargain.

Here's a link to help compare.

http://minneapolisfed.org/Research/data/us/calc/index.cfm

[SFC]

Guys, you are basing your comparisons on single-item costs and analogies that may not hold true. You must consider changes in manufacturing, total units produces, distribution channels. What we really need to do is index the dollar against inflation. Consider wage inflation as much as cost inflation. On another note, the cost of gas, inflation adjusted is CHEAPER than it was in the 70s. We may complain about the rise of late, but it is an amazing bargain.

Here's a link to help compare.
http://minneapolisfed.org/Research/d...calc/index.cfm

?? what was that site supposed to prove... a car that sold for 3300$ in 1970 should be 15k$ according to that site. All it did was re-iterate that cars are a fucking rip now. Especially when you take into account the cheaper cost of production from automation and outsourced labor to countries like china that do it for nearly nothing. That and GM/Ford/Chrysler becoming behemoth's enveloping all the smaller manufacturers should've brought cost down through consolidation... and it hasn't.

[PHRANQUY]

?? what was that site supposed to prove... a car that sold for 3300$ in 1970 should be 15k$ according to that site. All it did was re-iterate that cars are a fucking rip now. Especially when you take into account the cheaper cost of production from automation and outsourced labor to countries like china that do it for nearly nothing. That and GM/Ford/Chrysler becoming behemoth's enveloping all the smaller manufacturers should've brought cost down through consolidation... and it hasn't.

One thing that the site does nto take into consideration though is that the price of steel and other materials has gone up in the last year or so. There are so may factors to consider, that it would be hard to justify a $3300 car in 1970 costing $15,000 right now that it doesn't balance out quite the same.

[68GTO]

SFC and Guys-
This was not intended to be a site that proved all. There is no such site. However, it is a factor and the rise in cost is due to MANY factors, among them:
* EPA restrictions
* Safety requlations/equipment mandates
* Cost of lawsuits
* Impact of rising Labor costs
* Impact of raw material costs
* Impact of fully-funded liabilities from pension, health and other benefit programs

Here's an "inside" peek at something. GM begins production on a car. From the first second, they are over $4000 in the negative to account for pension, health and other benefits. ON EVERY CAR. Yes, I know about what I speak in this matter.

So, the point here is that what you see as costs on the surface may not tell the entire story. Sure, costs have increased! So has safety, content and performance. It is not a static equation.

That's my point.