FIRED

[SFC]

You're accusing me of making broad assumptions regarding people while throwing examples of individuals in my face. How would you like pick this battle? Should we go through each individual case one at a time, or should we apply a common logic that will work for the majority?

It's black and white though, we don't even need judges. There's no point to hearing individual court cases, or letting a judge give a sentence based on the crime, and his FEELINGS about what the punishment should be.

AGAIN!!!---I admit even people who prepare can be blindsided. I don't dispute that.

So, do you want to battle the eaches?

You don't dispute it, you just don't think we should have a program in place to help them out of that situation so they can go back to contributing to society. Or at the very least, not starve to death... After all, that'll be a lesson to all those other people who are prepared and have no control over things happening to them in life!

[SFC]

No, I clearly haven't... Man you know so much about me it sometimes amazes me.

I wouldn't know how much medical bills suck, especially since my dad just had a triple heart bypass surgery... those are cheap, yanno, even after insurance...

And let's say I was about 2 weeks away from being homeless, and was considering the air force as my final option about 8 years ago (luckily back then I was able to pass the physical with ease )

Like I said, I'm not denying they don't exist; but if you work in a hospital - yeah, i'm gonna bet you're gonna see a lot of sick people... That doesn't make it the norm. If you were a bankruptcy judge though, I'd say your view would be quite different...

You're right, it's most definitely a corner case! Nobody in this country gets cancer or has to pay for treatment, or any other incurable disease requiring long-term treatment. Medical is only becoming the biggest expense in our society by coincidence.


As for your bankruptcy judge comment... REALLY? You HAVE done your research

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

[Fosters]

Actually no. I guess I did not know that was how someone would perceive that. It was more to simply state agreement with the other posted comments.

After all Business 101:
Business are in business to make money.
If a business fails to make money, then the business will fail. Keep the productivity workers producing stuff is one of, if not, the fundamental process of business.

With that said how would one play devils advocate and stop a business from production of stuff?

is that why you're pro-auto bailout?

Well one way is to impose tariffs and sanctions against foreign businesses. Think NAFTA doesn’t directly affect you? Wow, then it is time to revaluate this situation.

I guess that was more elaboration on what I was thinking. Jumping up and down on one of my previous comments never entered my mind. I’m slightly confused why you would think so defensively on my comment. Maybe that is just how the heard on TCS is trained to react to posts?

While I do agree with some of the tarriffs; I disagree on calling them sanctions against foreign businesses. I believe in a level playing field. If a Focus in UK can cost as much as an X-type jag over here, fuck em. Slap some big ass tarriffs on em and level out the playing field. Let's see how well corollas sell at $35,000 msrp...

On a side note; if japan doesn't allow cars to have more than 300hp, fuck em, put a minimum 200 ft-lbs of torque requirement over here... I kid, I kid... On and while we're at it, let's get the same emissions requirements as europe - esp when it comes to dizzles - since they're all about the green and stuff... I dream, I dream...

[Fosters]

You're right, it's most definitely a corner case! Nobody in this country gets cancer or has to pay for treatment, or any other incurable disease requiring long-term treatment. Medical is only becoming the biggest expense in our society by coincidence.


As for your bankruptcy judge comment... REALLY? You HAVE done your research

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tcy_study.html

Nice, a 4 year old article definitely has to capture the bankruptcy cases since the crash of the economy...

Edit: Medical bills are what have to have caused the housing market crash... It had to have been Bush's hate for the poor people buying all the houses made affordable by Clinton, Bush made them all sick! I got it now!

[Scorpner]

nvrmnd

[SFC]

Nice, a 4 year old article definitely has to capture the bankruptcy cases since the crash of the economy...

Edit: Medical bills are what have to have caused the housing market crash... It had to have been Bush's hate for the poor people buying all the houses made affordable by Clinton, Bush made them all sick! I got it now!

OH... OH... I get it!! IS this where you say you don't think medical bills are the major cause of bankruptcy... they apparently no longer happened in 2008 and provide absolutely 0 basis for your "theory"?

Oh, is see... with your ninja edit you decided to try to deflect this to a COMPLETELY different topic.

Here's a newsflash captain fucking genius: Foreclosure != bankruptcy.

[Fosters]

OH... OH... I get it!! IS this where you say you don't think medical bills are the major cause of bankruptcy... they apparently no longer happened in 2008 and provide absolutely 0 basis for your "theory"?

Nope, you cleared it all up for me. I don't know how I would have gotten around in life without enlightenment from SFC.

[Meegs]

is that why you're pro-auto bailout?
...

Short answer, Yes. Keep producing “stuff” that other countries will purchase. Other countries will purchase our GM and Ford products. It’s just that GM and Ford need to revaluate what consumers want to purchase.
Have you ever worked for Big Business? Things don’t change over night, as much as we wish they could.
For another start-up auto maker to start producing vehicles and magically hit the nail on the head would take years.
Years of all the support companies that feed GM and Ford raw and sometimes finished gadgets to rebound.
You are talking massive unemployment from companies that do not have employees under a direct contract for hire by GM or Ford. Rather just a dotted line for a subcontract supply company.

[SFC]

Short answer, Yes. Keep producing “stuff” that other countries will purchase. Other countries will purchase our GM and Ford products. It’s just that GM and Ford need to revaluate what consumers want to purchase.
Have you ever worked for Big Business? Things don’t change over night, as much as we wish they could.
For another start-up auto maker to start producing vehicles and magically hit the nail on the head would take years.
Years of all the support companies that feed GM and Ford raw and sometimes finished gadgets to rebound.
You are talking massive unemployment from companies that do not have employees under a direct contract for hire by GM or Ford. Rather just a dotted line for a subcontract supply company.

What, you mean we should actually view our entire economy as one big business? And we, as a country, still need to actually produce goods to sell to the rest of the world?? Unfathomable!

And if we let someone like Toyota buy up GM all those profits go to another country? NO WAI!

Sell everything to China, what could go wrong??

[LS1Z28]

It's black and white though, we don't even need judges. There's no point to hearing individual court cases, or letting a judge give a sentence based on the crime, and his FEELINGS about what the punishment should be.

You continuously attempt to put words in my mouth for you to then criticize. Please site an instance where I have said we needed to end our judicial system?
I will, however, disagree with you whole heartidly about a judge involving his feelings in a punishment. Our judicial system has no room for emotion. Justice doesn't involve emotion -- vengence does.

You don't dispute it, you just don't think we should have a program in place to help them out of that situation so they can go back to contributing to society. Or at the very least, not starve to death... After all, that'll be a lesson to all those other people who are prepared and have no control over things happening to them in life!

Again, please site an instance where I didn't feel we should have programs like unemployment or welfare in place. The closest you'll come to such a post will be me saying that I feel welfare needs reform because abuse of it has become widespread.

[Fosters]

Short answer, Yes. Keep producing “stuff” that other countries will purchase. Other countries will purchase our GM and Ford products. It’s just that GM and Ford need to revaluate what consumers want to purchase.
Have you ever worked for Big Business? Things don’t change over night, as much as we wish they could.
For another start-up auto maker to start producing vehicles and magically hit the nail on the head would take years.
Years of all the support companies that feed GM and Ford raw and sometimes finished gadgets to rebound.
You are talking massive unemployment from companies that do not have employees under a direct contract for hire by GM or Ford. Rather just a dotted line for a subcontract supply company.

Umm... Ford pays my paycheck... I work for one of those companies in direct employment contracts with Ford.

Ford and GM have no problem producing vehicles that people want. Plenty of vehicles in the top 10 best selling vehicles come out of Detroit. If Ford and GM can't figure out how to make money while making those vehicles though, they do deserve to go under. As it was said before on this board, If Ford, GM and Chrysler sell 50 million cars each year but lose a dollar on each, and toyota sells 1 vehicle and makes $1000 on it, guess who has a more successful business?

[00Formula]

While shit can happen beyond a person's control and preparedness, it's far from the norm, at least in my experience, on what causes people to go under financially... Of all the people I've seen over the past few years have their lives turn to shit, it was never a medical bill that turned them bankrupt or getting laid off and never being able to get another job or whatnot... I don't deny that cases do exist where situations are beyond a person's control, but they're far from the norm...

Unfortunately that was the norm for my family, so in my life these extrenuating circumstances aren't a myth that happens to some one else, you know theoretically, to me it's real. That's why the world isn't black and white.

However, if you and LS1 can stay on the path of righteosness and always live in the white no matter what, then good for you I hope some one nominates the two of you for saint hood when the day comes

[LS1Z28]

However, if you and LS1 can stay on the path of righteosness and always live in the white no matter what, then good for you I hope some one nominates the two of you for saint hood when the day comes

What is it they say about the LS1? Touched by the hand of God?

[00Formula]

What is it they say about the LS1? Touched by the hand of God?

Oh I have no doubt that you've been "touched"

[TRDon]

I will, however, disagree with you whole heartidly about a judge involving his feelings in a punishment. Our judicial system has no room for emotion. Justice doesn't involve emotion -- vengence does.
.

Thats why OJ was put away for 15 years, vengence. Tell me someone who got put away for 15 year for accesory to robbery