FIRED

[RayK]

This is where I throw out there:

My buddy works for social security (OMG D-BAG LYING JUST TO KEEP HIS JOB!!11).

I get to hear both (far ends) of the spectrum from him as far as the people coming through. The sad part is that he sometimes HAS to approve people that in no way shape or form NEED the money, and has to deny people that absolutely do.

It's why I truly believe our social programs should continue to exist, but 100% need to be completely overhauled (OMG BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL!!!11).

So why shouldn't you collect SS if your entitled even tho you can get by without it? It's part of the retirement plan. Plus, it's even playing by the rules.

[bluchev]

So why shouldn't you collect SS if your entitled even tho you can get by without it? It's part of the retirement plan. Plus, it's even playing by the rules.

i know of a few people off the top of my head with children with disabilities who should be getting ssi but are denied.

[68GTO]

I'm not on a high horse...that's just me standing.

I respond to the post, not to the person. Sure, I used hyperbole to make a point of saying that name calling in bold does not further the discussion. Still, people make their own choices and that's how I want it to be.

I would hope that people in need would first look at themselves and try to help themselves. There is ALWAYS something that can be done. My mother came from tougher times than anyone posting here has likely seen in their lives but she did not complain. Living in a literal shack, with only shutters for windows, no heat or facilities, on a dirt plot where they grew their own food. It was the Great Depression and my grandfather lost everything but his will to succeed. Growing up, she and her family worked hard to make it better. They pulled together and found a way to make something from nothing. They did not look for handouts or someone else to resolve their problems.

There will always be people who fall on tough times. One can't always choose what happens, but one can ALWAYS choose how to react to it. Therein lies the difference. What had been "pick yourself up by the boot straps, dust yourself off and try again" has become "someone help me..."

[SFC]

So why shouldn't you collect SS if your entitled even tho you can get by without it? It's part of the retirement plan. Plus, it's even playing by the rules.

Because some people collect it at the age of 30 claiming they're disabled when they're clearly not?

[SFC]

I'm not on a high horse...that's just me standing.

I respond to the post, not to the person. Sure, I used hyperbole to make a point of saying that name calling in bold does not further the discussion. Still, people make their own choices and that's how I want it to be.

I would hope that people in need would first look at themselves and try to help themselves. There is ALWAYS something that can be done. My mother came from tougher times than anyone posting here has likely seen in their lives but she did not complain. Living in a literal shack, with only shutters for windows, no heat or facilities, on a dirt plot where they grew their own food. It was the Great Depression and my grandfather lost everything but his will to succeed. Growing up, she and her family worked hard to make it better. They pulled together and found a way to make something from nothing. They did not look for handouts or someone else to resolve their problems.

There will always be people who fall on tough times. One can't always choose what happens, but one can ALWAYS choose how to react to it. Therein lies the difference. What had been "pick yourself up by the boot straps, dust yourself off and try again" has become "someone help me..."

Right, and some people were even less fortunate than your great-grandmother and died, or had children die (like in my family). All while the Rockefellers continued to prosper. Do you suggest we eliminate ALL safety nets and return to a time where people displaced to the point they can't get a job, or feed themselves, die? All while people like you and I live a prosperous, functioning life?

I find that outright disgusting and wrong, not only as a Christian, but as a human being.

You call that class warfare all you want, I'll call it basic humanity. Don't give me the diatribe about people who abuse the system, I've repeatedly stated things need to change, but claiming anyone who asks for help is abusing the system is as dishonest as saying anyone who has money/wealth earned it

[bluchev]

I'm not on a high horse...that's just me standing.

I respond to the post, not to the person. Sure, I used hyperbole to make a point of saying that name calling in bold does not further the discussion. Still, people make their own choices and that's how I want it to be.

I would hope that people in need would first look at themselves and try to help themselves. There is ALWAYS something that can be done. My mother came from tougher times than anyone posting here has likely seen in their lives but she did not complain. Living in a literal shack, with only shutters for windows, no heat or facilities, on a dirt plot where they grew their own food. It was the Great Depression and my grandfather lost everything but his will to succeed. Growing up, she and her family worked hard to make it better. They pulled together and found a way to make something from nothing. They did not look for handouts or someone else to resolve their problems.

There will always be people who fall on tough times. One can't always choose what happens, but one can ALWAYS choose how to react to it. Therein lies the difference. What had been "pick yourself up by the boot straps, dust yourself off and try again" has become "someone help me..."

[68GTO]

Right, and some people were even less fortunate than your great-grandmother and died, or had children die (like in my family). All while the Rockefellers continued to prosper. Do you suggest we eliminate ALL safety nets and return to a time where people displaced to the point they can't get a job, or feed themselves, die? All while people like you and I live a prosperous, functioning life?

I find that outright disgusting and wrong, not only as a Christian, but as a human being.

You call that class warfare all you want, I'll call it basic humanity. Don't give me the diatribe about people who abuse the system, I've repeatedly stated things need to change, but claiming anyone who asks for help is abusing the system is as dishonest as saying anyone who has money/wealth earned it

I'm not sure to whom your comment was addressed as I mentioned my mother's situation and not great grandmother. You know, bad things happen in the world and sometimes to good people. That's part of the cycle of life. My comment had no ties to "safety nets". Yes, I DO call your post class warfare like, but I don't begrudge anyone the right to complain. I merely point out the difference in how one looks at a dire situation and the decision they make for going forward.

You are free to do with your money as you wish and call your generosity anything you like. If you feel you need to do more, than you can donate your time and money to help others in need like I do. I volunteer to help disabled/disadvantaged kids learn to swim, ski, dance, etc. I help deliver food and I contribute to several charities even when I have little. I might implore others to join me, but I can not expect everyone to join me in my decisions. I never claimed that anyone using a social program (welfare or other) is a deadbeat or freeloader. The problem I have with the suggestion that we must help everyone is that we can't... but the expectation that we will do so drives people to inaction or less action than if there were no promise of such. It's really quite similar to a subsidy. Anytime something is subsidized, the demand for that thing increases.

I believe that people are generally good and willing to help others. I do not think one can mandate "generosity" as it will no longer be free will. I also do not fault someone for making money in an economic downturn. Why would that be bad? Those making money will employ more people and help more people than businesses who don't.

[SFC]

I'm not sure to whom your comment was addressed as I mentioned my mother's situation and not great grandmother. You know, bad things happen in the world and sometimes to good people. That's part of the cycle of life. My comment had no ties to "safety nets". Yes, I DO call your post class warfare like, but I don't begrudge anyone the right to complain. I merely point out the difference in how one looks at a dire situation and the decision they make for going forward.

You are free to do with your money as you wish and call your generosity anything you like. If you feel you need to do more, than you can donate your time and money to help others in need like I do. I volunteer to help disabled/disadvantaged kids learn to swim, ski, dance, etc. I help deliver food and I contribute to several charities even when I have little. I might implore others to join me, but I can not expect everyone to join me in my decisions. I never claimed that anyone using a social program (welfare or other) is a deadbeat or freeloader. The problem I have with the suggestion that we must help everyone is that we can't... but the expectation that we will do so drives people to inaction or less action than if there were no promise of such. It's really quite similar to a subsidy. Anytime something is subsidized, the demand for that thing increases.

I believe that people are generally good and willing to help others. I do not think one can mandate "generosity" as it will no longer be free will. I also do not fault someone for making money in an economic downturn. Why would that be bad? Those making money will employ more people and help more people than businesses who don't.

Alan Greenspan did the same and look where it ended us? The general populous are generally good and willing to help others. History has shown those at the top are generally NOT.

In their old age they may try to make a difference to change history's view of them... but during their *fruitful years*... it's hardly the case.

[LS1Z28]

At what point should we eliminate something called personal responsibility? I've never said people can guard themselves from anything and everything. They can, however, prepare themselves for many of these dire situations by living below their means during the good times while stock piling assets instead of frivolously spending.
I agree that telling people they shouldn't have gotten where they are isn't help to them. But, we can prevent others from ending up in the same place by showing them a better way.
I've also said I understand that you do what you have to do when it comes to putting food on the table when I said I'd never tell someone to stop kicking while they try to keep their head above water. I just won't be applauding them when I know they were using unscrupulous ways to make it happen. The ends don't justify the means.
If you think I'm on a high horse for standing by my beliefs and not accepting people's rationalization for breaking the laws of our society, so be it. I simply believe there is a standard and it's either met or it isn't. You do things right, or you don't. To me, life is black and white. You have to weigh your options and determine for yourself how much you are willing to answer for.
Something my football coach told me in high school was, "Never do anything to embarrass yourself, your family or your teammates. In anything you do, if you feel it will ever cause embarrassment, you should probably reconsider."

[00Formula]

At what point should we eliminate something called personal responsibility? I've never said people can guard themselves from anything and everything. They can, however, prepare themselves for many of these dire situations by living below their means during the good times while stock piling assets instead of frivolously spending.
I agree that telling people they shouldn't have gotten where they are isn't help to them. But, we can prevent others from ending up in the same place by showing them a better way.
I've also said I understand that you do what you have to do when it comes to putting food on the table when I said I'd never tell someone to stop kicking while they try to keep their head above water. I just won't be applauding them when I know they were using unscrupulous ways to make it happen. The ends don't justify the means.
If you think I'm on a high horse for standing by my beliefs and not accepting people's rationalization for breaking the laws of our society, so be it. I simply believe there is a standard and it's either met or it isn't. You do things right, or you don't. To me, life is black and white. You have to weigh your options and determine for yourself how much you are willing to answer for.
Something my football coach told me in high school was, "Never do anything to embarrass yourself, your family or your teammates. In anything you do, if you feel it will ever cause embarrassment, you should probably reconsider."

I'm so happy for you that the world is so black and white in your world

No one asked you to applaud but your posts (mostly in the other unemployment thread) were completely judgemental.

You keep bringing this "stand for something" thing back up, just for perspective Yassar Arafat, Osama Bin Laden and Adolf Hitler all stood for something.

Would you like a cookie because you "stand for something" that a lot of people have enough real world experience to know is not so black and white?

[LS1Z28]

Who in the hell are you to decide whether or not I have real world experience with this? Why are you bringing what I said in another thread into this one? Especially when that thread was clearly about someone taking advantage of the system.
Your childish ways of villianizing someone who doesn't agree with you are deplorable.

Life is black and white, my friend. It is the attempt to rationalize their own actions that may confuse people into seeing shades of grey. Life isn't easy. Sometimes it's too tough to do the right thing. Sometimes it's far too tempting to break the rules and do what you feel you have to do in order to get by. I know that.

I won't stop being judgemental, as you say I am. When you stop holding people to the standard, they are able to justify and rationalize more and more. There's a reason human beings have guilt programed into their consciousness. They should feel guilty, or unaccepted, when they are doing what should be unacceptable.

[Slow35th]

[TRDon]

moar is moar

[Fosters]

I'm so happy for you that the world is so black and white in your world

No one asked you to applaud but your posts (mostly in the other unemployment thread) were completely judgemental.

You keep bringing this "stand for something" thing back up, just for perspective Yassar Arafat, Osama Bin Laden and Adolf Hitler all stood for something.

Would you like a cookie because you "stand for something" that a lot of people have enough real world experience to know is not so black and white?

Speaking about standing for something... You were all about balancing the budget and you were all up in arms about how Bush had no plan to curb the deficit, so the solution is increase the taxes and whatnot...

What's your take on the messiah's plan to increase that deficit from about 200 billion to 1.5 trillion?

[LS1Z28]

LS1Z28 you are a self righteous pile of fuck. I hope someday you are actually put in the position where you will need

help, and unemployment doesn't cut it. what the fuck do you plan on telling your wife and kids when you cant

find a job? no honey i can't do side jobs because that would be wrong! tell your kids they cant fucking eat because its

against the rules. sorry buddy but you dont have a god damn clue. you do whatever the fuck you have to when youre put

in that position. so don't act all high and mighty saying what is and what isnt acceptable unless you've been in the same

situation.

Apparently your reading comprehension hasn't exceeded your caveman-esk modula oblongata. You're quick to attack without using the rest of your brain first. If you had, you would have read where I said I've had tough times most of my life and been in plenty of positions of need.

But, rock on with your bad self.